[EB AAR] Koinon Hellenon: Athens X Sparta (.org X TWCenter), a participative AAR - Sparte

[Diomede]

I AGREE with proposal one.
I DISAGREE with the military proposal. We need at least a couple heavy hoplites, levies won't cut it. After liberating Athens we can merge any depleted units and return some levies which do not wish for a higher training, to the fields.
I agree with all three of Romanus' propositions too.

[Populus Romanus]

I AGREE with proposal one.
I DISAGREE with the military proposal. We need at least a couple heavy hoplites, levies won't cut it. After liberating Athens we can merge any depleted units and return some levies which do not wish for a higher training, to the fields.
I agree with all three of Romanus' propositions too.

So you officially join the Sparte Nationalist Party? YES! Its official! I am now an Euphoroi! Woohoo!
I suggest that when finally take the offensive again against the Makedonians, that we do not engage them in protracted sieges. This is an invitation for a disaster that we experienced before at the Battle of Demetrias. We should only engage the Makedonians in field battles where they cannot be reinforced, and perhaps we should even bypass their cities initially to destroy any forces they have nearby that could reinforce during a siege, before we actually commence the siege.

[MIDN Mainolfi]

So you officially join the Sparte Nationalist Party? YES! Its official! I am now an Euphoroi! Woohoo!
I suggest that when finally take the offensive again against the Makedonians, that we do not engage them in protracted sieges. This is an invitation for a disaster that we experienced before at the Battle of Demetrias. We should only engage the Makedonians in field battles where they cannot be reinforced, and perhaps we should even bypass their cities initially to destroy any forces they have nearby that could reinforce during a siege, before we actually commence the siege.

Sorry for the double post. This isn't an agreement or disagreement, persay, but a discussion.

Wouldn't sieges be better in terms of overall casualties? Yes, the siege of Demetrias was brutal, but think of the casualties of an open-field engagement! At least of we have the time to starve some of the opposition, wouldn't that save more of our guys in the long run?

If we can somehow coordinate the Spartan and Athenian city armies, unfortunately that would likely require the repeal of the Attike Act, to secure the flanks and forward positions, and simultaneously allowing a powerhouse army to whither away a city from the inside, wouldn't that do more to preserve those expensive hoplites?

[SavageFeat]

Populus did u completely ignore me? =(

[Populus Romanus]

Populus did u completely ignore me? =(

Sorry! Your post was sandwiched in between a bunch of monsters, and I didn't notice. All the better! Now I have three party members. I give you a belated thank you. Thank You!

[SavageFeat]

Sorry! Your post was sandwiched in between a bunch of monsters, and I didn't notice. All the better! Now I have three party members. I give you a belated thank you. Thank You!

its alright as long as i get to be in the party

man this dicussion is growing long i lave 2 tabs open to keep up with the conversation.

[Populus Romanus]

its alright as long as i get to be in the party

man this dicussion is growing long i lave 2 tabs open to keep up with the conversation.

Don't worry, you are! Strangely, i have two tabs open as well.
I have a question for the author: What makes the Ephoroi so special?

[Populus Romanus]

I Disagree with proposal 1. Losing the army was a negative consequence of not having a Spartan Strategos, and raising an army of capable fighting strength is not something I think we can financially afford to do. Maybe enough to defend ourselves should the Macedonians bypass Athens and head for us, but nothing serious.

I Disagree with proposal 2. Though I think that completely destroying the army besieging Athens is a good idea, posting our troops on the front is not. We have no idea what lies beyond Demetria, and if we lose frontier-stationed forces during a siege, we'll be in even more trouble. I think we should just remain local for now.

I Disagree with proposal 4. Strictly circumstantially, there isn't anything close enough to us, that I know of, that is close enough to send our forces to without leaving ourselves exposed. Though definitely in the future.

Overall, I think we should just let the Athenians secure the borders against our common enemy to the north, while we simply secure ourselves. They don't want us on their land, and though that discovered information clearly states intention to withdraw it, it hasn't been "officially" set in place, therefore, we might as well use it to our advantage while we have the time.

Are we Spartans supposed to sit back and let someone else do the fighting for us? This is not the Spartan way. Spartans are not cowards, we are men of action. Anyways, it is not like anything is getting past Athenai. If we let the Army of Sparte just sit there, than it is just a useless army that eats up money and gives nothing in return.

[MIDN Mainolfi]

Okay, would it be possible to use a fleet (do we have one?) to reach krete (have we taken that?), or perhaps sail around the western edge of the peninsula and attack Thermon? That way we deal damage to the Macedonians, and bypass Athenian territory.

[SavageFeat]

Are we Spartans supposed to sit back and let someone else do the fighting for us? This is not the Spartan way. Spartans are not cowards, we are men of action. Anyways, it is not like anything is getting past Athenai. If we let the Army of Sparte just sit there, than it is just a useless army that eats up money and gives nothing in return.

I AGREE with this idea that is not the spartan way but, something that we could do with this army is a long forgotten topic (prehaps a couple of pages ago(max 3). until Mainolfi brought it up ).

I PROPOSE that should the spartan army be left standing where it is that we should take the city of Thermon it could help provide an Economy to the Alliance as well as provide political support for Sparta as Athens has two city's more over to their side with this is should be even, if Sparta conquerers/liberates.

Okay, would it be possible to use a fleet (do we have one?) to reach krete (have we taken that?), or perhaps sail around the western edge of the peninsula and attack Thermon? That way we deal damage to the Macedonians, and bypass Athenian territory.

damn already beaten there

[MIDN Mainolfi]

Too late!

[SavageFeat]

Too late!

haha you would have finished and posted while i was writing. Though I fear that we might have scared most other people away because the last page is dominated between you, me and Populus + a little bit of Molina
and Populus this might satisfy you

I have a question for the author: What makes the Ephoroi so special?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephor i tried to type Ephoroi before i typed in Ephor

[MIDN Mainolfi]

Hahaa! That's okay, I'll bet they'll come back once it starts to slow down again, we're just gettin' into our work!

[MIDN Mainolfi]

I AGREE with this idea that is not the spartan way but, something that we could do with this army is a long forgotten topic (prehaps a couple of pages ago(max 3). until Mainolfi brought it up ).

I apologize for nothing!


I agree with the proposal to obtain trade rights with the Epirotes, but I think we already have one with the Romans.

Savage feat and I Propose to besiege and adopt Thermon as our 3rd city-state.

I alternatively, or perhaps both if the gettin's good, propose that we attack krete to the south, and perhaps adopt it as our 3rd city-state.

F.Y.I, though you all already know this, if we take both, Sparta would have the upper hand in the number of city-states! The sandwich heavy portfolio would payoff for the hungry investor!
*******************************************************
Figured I'd make a clean-up thread:

Sparta: Lost control of military, needs to decide what to do with remainder of Spartan forces.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Populus:
(1)Men of Sparte, have just realized a terrible fact, that may explain our defeats of late well. The Army of the Koinoin and the Army of Sparte only have one unit of Hoplitai Haploi! And those are hardly even soldiers, but mere untrained levies. To put that differently, the proud Army of the Koinoin has but one melee unit! So I ask you this: when will the barracks be completed? We need real Hoplitai, who are professional soldiers, and we need lots of them, and we need them now! Does this barracks allow for the recruitment of Hoplitai? Or even of Hoplitai Haploi? Men of Sparte: TO VICTORY!

Populus: (Later Post)

(2)I PROPOSE that the Army of the Koinoin rescue Athenai.
(3)I PROPOSE that the Army of Sparte take the Hellas Front.
(4)I PROPOSE that the Army of Athenai take the Ionia Front.

Mainolfi:
(5)Proposal: Since we also have control of recruitment, and have very limited funds, I propose that all of our new recruits be militia. We will need cheap troops for the upcoming campaign that is sure to follow after the liberation of Athens, without breaking the bank again!

Populus:
I (6)PROPOSE that we start levying lots of new troops in Sparte, seeing as we just lost control of the Army of the Koinoin, and are now severely weakened militarily. BTW: when is that barracks going to be finished, and will we finally be able to recruit Hoplitai? That Army of Sparte with no Hoplitai is an eyesore.
I (7)PROPOSE that the Army of Sparte, IF the Athenai do not wish it to accompany the Army of the Koinoin on the mission to relieve Athenai, occupy the Thermopylae fort and cut off the Makedonians escape route, leading to their certain doom.
I (8)PROPOSE that we enslave a city sometime soon: we need the cash.

Status:
(1): Not sure if it counts as a proposal, but to be fair, we'll call it even?: 1 Agree 1 Disagree
(2),(3),(4): 1 Agree
(5): 1 Agree 1 Disagree
(6): 1 Agree 2 Disagree
(7): 2 Agree 1 Disagree
(8): 1 Agree 1 Disagree

Basically, we've gotten nowhere, but it's still in discussion, so propose, oppose, or agree.......yeah.....



A decision must be made as to whether or not to help Athens:
Mainolfi:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Propose: Let Athens fall, then retake it and impose Spartan law.

Status: 1 Agree 2 Disagree

Same thing, we got nowhere! lol

Sparta's construction program is being discussed:
Mainolfi:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(1)Proposal: Since we have major control over construction, I propose we spend any "in the black" funds on buildings that stimulate economy and income, like docks or farms, and hold off as long as possible on any military construction.

(2)Savagefeat:
To also go with the proposal above I PROPOSE that city's such as Korthinos and Sparte start to build more Military buildings (as well as a few financial buildings) as this is Sparta's proud tradition of being the worlds best warriors.

(1): 2 Agree
(2): Never directly responded to

A repealing of the Attike act as been proposed:
Populus:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spartans, I PROPOSE that we repeal the Attike Act. This act makes no sense, and cripples the offensive capabilities of the Koinoin as a whole. On top of that, Athenai is being besieged, and there is nothing the Army of the Koinoin can do to help them because the Attike Act forbids them to. Spartans, I say that we should refuse to give any assistance to Athenai whatsoever in this siege and leave them to their fates unless the Attike Act is repealed. The ungrateful and idiotic Athenai will have no choice but to repeal the law, or die at the swords of the Makedonians!

Status: 1 Agree

Espionage program has been discussed:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Mainolfi:
Propose: Expand espionage actions in Macedonia.

Status: 1 Agree

Seeking new trading arrangements is being discussed:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Mainolfi:
Propose: Seek trade agreements with Egypt, Carthage, or other factions across the Meditteranean.

Status: 1 Agree

Joining Populus's party has been discussed.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Populus:
Men of Sparte, I, Populus Romanus, am honored to be the founding member of the Sparte Nationalist Party. The Sparte Nationalist Party (SNP) will look out for the interests of Sparte in the Koinoin Hellenon, making sure that our proud polis is fairly represtented in the politics of the Koinoin, to ensure economic stability at home, to allow for Sparte to succeed in her military endeavors and for the Army of Sparte to the most powerful and feared force in the world, and for fair and equal representation of the Allies. Join today! Men of Sparte, TO VICTORY!
SNP colors: RED
SNP motto: Άνδρες της Σπάρτης: προς τη νίκη==>Men of Sparte: TO VICTORY!
SNP symbol:

SNP protocol: All SNP members must abide by SNP protocols. These include the following: 1) Never forward any proposals that violate any of the SNP's core tenents 2) Never agree with any proposals that violate the SNP's core tenents 3) Never question the SNP's core tenents (if you question them, why did you join in the first place?) 4) Always support proposals that agree with the SNP's core tenents as long as they are feasible and sensible 5) Always respect fellow Spartans, even if they of a different party 6) Participate in voting 7) The Ephoroi is the ultimite authority, and can accept or expel members as they wish.

Populus:
I PROPOSE that someone join SNP.

Status: 3 Agree

Remanning the frontier fort was also discussed, I'm not sure exactly on this one, but I think I've seen proposed at least twice, so:

Status: 1 Agree


NEW PROPOSALS!!!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Scutarilegion:
I propose that we restrain from recruiting more men until our city's population is restored.

Status: 1 Agree

ArtoriusRex:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Proposal 1: A Royal Pardon for Jirisys and an invite back to his seat on the Council of Sparta

Proposal 2: When we do take Demitaras, we should enslave it.

Proposal 3: Soon as we can we should recruit Hoplati.

Status: Pending

crap.

Indeed........if I've forgotten anything, and I'm sure I have, just say so, and I'll add it. Hope this either helps, or drives you insane........MWUHAHAAA! This all takes place after the last gameplay post from the author.........so yeah......crap.......

If this doesn't make a new page, I don't know what will.......

[Molina]

Woah, thanks a lot MIDN Mainolfi, that's really helpful.

By the way, Mainolfi, have you joined or created any parties? If not then you'll remain as a Moderate, and you can be the Party Leader of the Moderates if you wish, just out of that helpful post of yours!

I still have not fully understood if Diomede joined the SNP, I'd like him to confirm that before updating the Spartan Council status.

Hay I have an idea for molina perhaps you should make a thread in the EB forum and add a new polis maybe Thessaly when we liberate it? Then there will be a bit more politics then just Sparta and Athens and in doing so make it more interesting hehehe
Though what are the plans about Athenai are we just going to let it fall or are we gonna save their asses? And if it does fall where will their council go? I certainly hope not Sparta maybe Rhodos?

There aren't enough family members for another thread/polis to be added. I might try this later on.

Athens is unlikely to fall. So far they have requested the Alliance Army to come liberate the city led by Areus. Areus must do so as a subject of the Koinon Hellenon and under the Koinon Consitution, as the Athenians hold the office of Strategos and have control over the Alliance military.

The session is still open and will remain so for at least another 5 hours.

[Diomede]

I was busy playing as Hayasdan, sorry.

Are you sure you want to risk sharing a border with treacherous Epeirotes? Thermon serves a rather good purpose at the moment.

[SavageFeat]

I was busy playing as Hayasdan, sorry.

Are you sure you want to risk sharing a border with treacherous Epeirotes? Thermon serves a rather good purpose at the moment.

That is true but prehaps we should ally them? Do we already have trade rights? If we don't then
I Propose that we gain trade rights with the Eporits and Romans as these could get more trading out of Korinthos

[SavageFeat]

Hay I have an idea for molina perhaps you should make a thread in the EB forum and add a new polis maybe Thessaly when we liberate it? Then there will be a bit more politics then just Sparta and Athens and in doing so make it more interesting hehehe
Though what are the plans about Athenai are we just going to let it fall or are we gonna save their asses? And if it does fall where will their council go? I certainly hope not Sparta maybe Rhodos?

[MIDN Mainolfi]

I can't make a party! There's a turkey in the oven! It's going to rain! I am NOT simply making excuses! Alright! I'll make one!

Acutally, I'm not sure if I could make a party. I suppose I could add an interesting experience to this, and make a party that is based on self-preservation of Sparta or something. The party would oppose Populus's ideas, for obvious reasons, and be more defensive than offensive based. But thats kind of unSpartan. Otherwise, my ideas are kind of scattered about, I don't really like to ride a strict line of beliefs. I suppose I could make like a party of free-thinkers, but I'm a thinkin' that is the Moderate Party.

If it's not widely believed that a conservative party would totally be a buzz kill and take away from the experience, then I would get crackin' on one, just so Populus doesn't keep throwing his smug, overly-aggressive tactics all up in my face! He's just so smug.......

Edit: Actually, being a keeper of records is more of a Moderate thing isn't it? In that case, I would accept a nomination as leader of the Moderate Party!

[Diomede]

Woah... ok.
In case I didn't disagree with it already. I disagree that we should let Athens fall and make every effort to relieve them.

And um... sure, I can be part of Romanus' party for now. Until I think about making my own.