[EB AAR] Koinon Hellenon: Athens X Sparta (.org X TWCenter), a participative AAR - Sparte

[Populus Romanus]

Men of Sparte, I, Populus Romanus, am honored to be the founding member of the Sparte Nationalist Party. The Sparte Nationalist Party (SNP) will look out for the interests of Sparte in the Koinoin Hellenon, making sure that our proud polis is fairly represtented in the politics of the Koinoin, to ensure economic stability at home, to allow for Sparte to succeed in her military endeavors and for the Army of Sparte to the most powerful and feared force in the world, and for fair and equal representation of the Allies. Join today! Men of Sparte, TO VICTORY!
SNP colors: RED
SNP motto: Άνδρες της Σπάρτης: προς τη νίκη==>Men of Sparte: TO VICTORY!
SNP symbol:

SNP protocol: All SNP members must abide by SNP protocols. These include the following: 1) Never forward any proposals that violate any of the SNP's core tenents 2) Never agree with any proposals that violate the SNP's core tenents 3) Never question the SNP's core tenents (if you question them, why did you join in the first place?) 4) Always support proposals that agree with the SNP's core tenents as long as they are feasible and sensible 5) Always respect fellow Spartans, even if they of a different party 6) Participate in voting 7) The Ephoroi is the ultimite authority, and can accept or expel members as they wish.

*thunderous applause*

[Molina]

A few things that would be nice to inform together with the name of the party:
-Ideals of the party (like Vaginacles said, what ideals the party will defend).
-Color(s).
-Symbol (supply an image or just describe it).

This is an unfortunate new page. Check the previous page for 2 important updates!

[MIDN Mainolfi]

"Spartans! Allow me to speak bluntly!" A young man arose from the countless rows of coucilmen, and took to the center of the hall. His hair was cleancut, and his eyes were as green as tree leaves in summer.

"Spartans! Is it not fair, for all intents and purposes, to say that we are at a low stage of war with the Athenians? Yes, it is true that we are brothers of the Koinon Hellenon, but in what manner have we acted as allies? The Athenians will not allow us to cross into their lands, even now as they stare imminent death in the face, their foolish pride blinds them from seeing that they cannot exist without the might of Sparta! So be it!
Let them learn the consequence of their foolish isolationist acts! When Athens falls, WE can re-conquer it, and they will be forced to bend to OUR ways of fighting! We can show them how a true Greek wages war!"

Applause filled the room from those that agreed with the strange young man's proposal. After having his fill, the young man motioned for everyone to quiet down.

"But, my brave, brave countrymen! We are not only plagued with the issue of Athens! This is a turbulent time, and we mustn't let ourselves become too preoccupied with one issue! Populus! I second your motion for the appointment of Akrotatos Agiados Lakedaimonios to the position of Hegemon! However, I do have a nomination for Strategos! Chremonides Aithalidas Attikas! Though he does not have much experience, it has been mentioned that King Areus Agiados Lakedaimonios can no longer run, and I see none who possess even an elementary knowledge in warfare! Decisions MUST be made, dear Populus, lest you end up turning into an Athenian!"

Laughter erupted throughout the hall, but the young man motioned for silence, "There are further matters that require attention! I propose that we expand our espionage operations across the Macedonians territories! They have claimed far more than just the lands adjacent to us, and we need to know what they may be hiding up there! Also, I propose we expand our trade routes! Why not search in the lands of North Africa for wealth! We need to investigate all viable options to relieve ourselves of our debts!"

More applause erupted from the crowd, but this time, the young man took it all in. As he made his way to sit down, he took a moment to introduce himself,


"My fellow Spartans, forgive my rudeness! My name is Epicydes, and I look forward to watching the growth of Sparta beside you!"

Sum Up:

Propose: Expand espionage actions in Macedonia.
Propose: Seek trade agreements with Egypt, Carthage, or other factions across the Meditteranean.
Propose: Let Athens fall, then retake it and impose Spartan law.
Propose: Nomination of Chremonides Aithalidos Attikas as Strategos
Agree: Akrotatos Agiados Lakedaimonios for Hegemon.
Compromising Agreement: If it is decided that Athens will/cannot fall, I agree with the proposition of repealing the Attike Act.

P.S.
If Athens and Sparta were to split, and I'm not sure if you would allow that or not, but if they did, how would you portray that?

[Molina]

Sum Up:

Propose: Expand espionage actions in Macedonia.
Propose: Seek trade agreements with Egypt, Carthage, or other factions across the Meditteranean.
Propose: Let Athens fall, then retake it and impose Spartan law.
Propose: Nomination of Chremonides Aithalidos Attikas as Strategos
Agree: Akrotatos Agiados Lakedaimonios for Hegemon.
Compromising Agreement: If it is decided that Athens will/cannot fall, I agree with the proposition of repealing the Attike Act.

P.S.
If Athens and Sparta were to split, and I'm not sure if you would allow that or not, but if they did, how would you portray that?

First of all, thanks for your post. I'll address some of your points.

On the nomination of Chremonides: Spartans can't nominate Chremonides to an office because he is an Athenian. A Spartan must be named to run against him instead. It is up to the Athenians to nominate Chremonides.

On conquering Athens: Conquering a hellenic city doesn't mean the conqueror gets to boss the city completely, it's still an independent polis. Should the Spartans "conquer" Athens if it falls to the Macedonians, this would hurt the Athenian influence a lot (Rhodes and Chalkis would move over to the Spartan sphere of influence), but Athenai would maintain its autonomy.

On the possibility of a split: A civil war is unthinkable at this point, considering the Macedonian threat. I still have to see how practical such an event would be. It is my intention to make civil war a possibility, but only later.

[MIDN Mainolfi]

First of all, thanks for your post. I'll address some of your points.

On the nomination of Chremonides: Spartans can't nominate Chremonides to an office because he is an Athenian. A Spartan must be named to run against him instead. It is up to the Athenians to nominate Chremonides.

On conquering Athens: Conquering a hellenic city doesn't mean the conqueror gets to boss the city completely, it's still an independent polis. Should the Spartans "conquer" Athens if it falls to the Macedonians, this would hurt the Athenian influence a lot (Rhodes and Chalkis would move over to the Spartan sphere of influence), but Athenai would maintain its autonomy.

On the possibility of a split: A civil war is unthinkable at this point, considering the Macedonian threat. I still have to see how practical such an event would be. It is my intention to make civil war a possibility, but only later.

Ah! I apologize! I completely failed to notice the fact that Chremonides was Athenian. In that case, if it is allowed, I would renominate Areus for Strategos! Perhaps this could be one of those unprecedented moments in politics that every country has at least once where someone gets astonishingly re-elected to a position that they would normally have to secceed. It could make for an interesting direction. Otherwise, I have no nomination or that.

Back in-character, @ savagefeat:

"My fellow Spartan! Has it not become obvious to you that Athens has no interest in friendly interreactions with others in this alliance? For years we have been trying to be pro-active, and make decisions that would help raise our cities to greatness, but still, Athens continues to cut us off at every pass! Like a wild animal, they will only learn through pain! They must suffer if they are to know the error of their ways!"

Proposal: Re-elect Areus for an unprecendented term as Strategos.
Proposal: I would still like to propose that we take the re-conquer Athens route, with the understanding that they become independant, but we get the support of the other cities.

P.S. My apologies to Populus. My character pointed to his character and told him not to be an Athenian when I was actually trying to nominate one!

@Savagefeat: Welcome to the forums! Have fun!

[SavageFeat]

Men of Sparte, I, Populus Romanus, am honored to be the founding member of the Sparte Nationalist Party. The Sparte Nationalist Party (SNP) will look out for the interests of Sparte in the Koinoin Hellenon, making sure that our proud polis is fairly represtented in the politics of the Koinoin, to ensure economic stability at home, to allow for Sparte to succeed in her military endeavors and for the Army of Sparte to the most powerful and feared force in the world, and for fair and equal representation of the Allies. Join today! Men of Sparte, TO VICTORY!
SNP colors: RED
SNP motto: Άνδρες της Σπάρτης: προς τη νίκη==>Men of Sparte: TO VICTORY!
SNP symbol:

SNP protocol: All SNP members must abide by SNP protocols. These include the following: 1) Never forward any proposals that violate any of the SNP's core tenents 2) Never agree with any proposals that violate the SNP's core tenents 3) Never question the SNP's core tenents (if you question them, why did you join in the first place?) 4) Always support proposals that agree with the SNP's core tenents as long as they are feasible and sensible 5) Always respect fellow Spartans, even if they of a different party 6) Participate in voting 7) The Ephoroi is the ultimite authority, and can accept or expel members as they wish.

*thunderous applause*

because you've edited this one

[Populus Romanus]

because you've edited this one

Nope, that is the original. You can find the SNP picture on the OP, where it has the two shield designs at the top, one for Athenai and one for Sparte. The Spartan one is obviously the one I used.

[Cannibalking]

Nope, that is the original. You can find the SNP picture on the OP, where it has the two shield designs at the top, one for Athenai and one for Sparte. The Spartan one is obviously the one I used.

Ever notice that the SNP protocol seems kind of fascist? Ever notice that fascism promotes nationalism?

[SavageFeat]

Nope, that is the original. You can find the SNP picture on the OP, where it has the two shield designs at the top, one for Athenai and one for Sparte. The Spartan one is obviously the one I used.

I thought you used that red one.....
I hope LU are thankful for what ive done... I will show what i have done soon very soon I ING hates Macs and Photoshop!
okay found one for SNP that is RED! =)

[Molina]

I thought you used that red one.....

This is the official SNP symbol, which is a red version of the spartan symbol:



It would be confusing as hell if the SNP symbol was exactly the same as the Spartan one.

[Diomede]

I have faith in Areus. I nominate Areus for Strategos! I also second the motion to vote for Akrotatos.
Spartans, Chremonides can only run for one position. We are guaranteed at least one victory! Why not attempt to make that two?

[Populus Romanus]

I have faith in Areus. I nominate Areus for Strategos! I also second the motion to vote for Akrotatos.
Spartans, Chremonides can only run for one position. We are guaranteed at least one victory! Why not attempt to make that two?

DIOMEDE! Sparte needs YOU for the Sparte Nationalist Party (at the TWCenter and at the .Org)!

[SavageFeat]

Propose: Expand espionage actions in Macedonia.
Propose: Seek trade agreements with Egypt, Carthage, or other factions across the Meditteranean.
Propose: Let Athens fall, then retake it and impose Spartan law.

I AGREE with Proposition 1 :
due to the fact we have no idea how many troops that the Macedonians field and with this information we could chosewhen to assault and perhaps take Demetrias and go further north into the Macedonian lands.

I AGREE with Proposition 2:
Due to the fact that we need the Mani

and I DISAGREE with Proposition 3:
If we help out our allies then they will be more likely to help US and lift and laws that stop us from entering their lands and if they ever levy any of those laws again or they do not lift this one then we should not go to their aid again. Though in saying so a split alliance is not a strong one.

I know that I am a new comer but i believe that Sparta could be lead to GREATNESS and gain DOMINANCE over this Hellenon through the right leadership of the leaders and council members.

Also I PROPOSE that should Athens be lifted from the siege that, the fort the Athenians erected "protect" them should be retaken and manned with more hardened troops then the small garrison that they left to defend them so more Mani can flow these halls not just to protect them.

[Populus Romanus]

Men of Sparte, Men of the Sparte Nationalist Party, I come to you today with a proposition. I suggest that the war against Makedonia be fought on two fronts: The Hellas Front and the Ionia Front. I suggest that Sparte, after rescueing Athenai, take over the Hellas Front, which will be the largest challenge. Therefore, our allies the Athenai can address the Ionia Front against the Makedonians in Lesbos and their allies, which is a task that is more suitable to them, given the current state of affairs of the Army of Athenai. Men of Sparte: TO VICTORY!

I PROPOSE that the Army of the Koinoin rescue Athenai.
I PROPOSE that the Army of Sparte take the Hellas Front.
I PROPOSE that the Army of Athenai take the Ionia Front.

[Molina]

KOINON ELECTION RESULTS - 268 BC



Chremonides has, as expected, won the election for the position of Strategos. Normally he would march to the position of the Alliance Army, but since he is in Athens, under siege, the Alliance Army has to go to him. It is up to the Athenians to decide if the Alliance Army will come commanded by an athenian captain or by the Spartan generals (and the Spartan hoplites that accompany them!). The Spartans must abide to the decision of the Athenians, since there is a new Strategos. The tables have turned.

This council must now decide the actions for the following year. With the current set of offices, the Athenians have more control of the military while the Spartans control buildings and recruitment of units.

[Diomede]

Hail Akrotatos!

[MIDN Mainolfi]

Proposal: Since we have major control over construction, I propose we spend any "in the black" funds on buildings that stimulate economy and income, like docks or farms, and hold off as long as possible on any military construction.

Proposal: Since we also have control of recruitment, and have very limited funds, I propose that all of our new recruits be militia. We will need cheap troops for the upcoming campaign that is sure to follow after the liberation of Athens, without breaking the bank again!

[SavageFeat]

Proposal: Since we have major control over construction, I propose we spend any "in the black" funds on buildings that stimulate economy and income, like docks or farms, and hold off as long as possible on any military construction.

Proposal: Since we also have control of recruitment, and have very limited funds, I propose that all of our new recruits be militia. We will need cheap troops for the upcoming campaign that is sure to follow after the liberation of Athens, without breaking the bank again!

I AGREE with proposal 1
I also AGREE with proposal 2

Also I PROPOSE that with Akrotatos being the new Hegemon that we start to build more financial buildings (as with proposal 1 above) but focus these upgrades in city's such as Athenai, Rhodos and Chalkis due to the fact that they are all places that have ports on the Aegean sea and these can be some rich places. (it is not due to the fact that i want them to have superoity over us)
To also go with the proposal above I PROPOSE that city's such as Korthinos and Sparte start to build more Military buildings (as well as a few financial buildings) as this is Sparta's proud tradition of being the worlds best warriors.

=( new page

[Populus Romanus]

I PROPOSE that we start levying lots of new troops in Sparte, seeing as we just lost control of the Army of the Koinoin, and are now severely weakened militarily. BTW: when is that barracks going to be finished, and will we finally be able to recruit Hoplitai? That Army of Sparte with no Hoplitai is an eyesore.
I PROPOSE that the Army of Sparte, IF the Athenai do not wish it to accompany the Army of the Koinoin on the mission to relieve Athenai, occupy the Thermopylae fort and cut off the Makedonians escape route, leading to their certain doom.
I PROPOSE that someone join SNP.
I PROPOSE that we enslave a city sometime soon: we need the cash.

[MIDN Mainolfi]

I PROPOSE that we start levying lots of new troops in Sparte, seeing as we just lost control of the Army of the Koinoin, and are now severely weakened militarily. BTW: when is that barracks going to be finished, and will we finally be able to recruit Hoplitai? That Army of Sparte with no Hoplitai is an eyesore.
I PROPOSE that the Army of Sparte, IF the Athenai do not wish it to accompany the Army of the Koinoin on the mission to relieve Athenai, occupy the Thermopylae fort and cut off the Makedonians escape route, leading to their certain doom.
I PROPOSE that someone join SNP.
I PROPOSE that we enslave a city sometime soon: we need the cash.

I Disagree with proposal 1. Losing the army was a negative consequence of not having a Spartan Strategos, and raising an army of capable fighting strength is not something I think we can financially afford to do. Maybe enough to defend ourselves should the Macedonians bypass Athens and head for us, but nothing serious.

I Disagree with proposal 2. Though I think that completely destroying the army besieging Athens is a good idea, posting our troops on the front is not. We have no idea what lies beyond Demetria, and if we lose frontier-stationed forces during a siege, we'll be in even more trouble. I think we should just remain local for now.

I Disagree with proposal 4. Strictly circumstantially, there isn't anything close enough to us, that I know of, that is close enough to send our forces to without leaving ourselves exposed. Though definitely in the future.

Overall, I think we should just let the Athenians secure the borders against our common enemy to the north, while we simply secure ourselves. They don't want us on their land, and though that discovered information clearly states intention to withdraw it, it hasn't been "officially" set in place, therefore, we might as well use it to our advantage while we have the time.