Population cap required for a town/city upgrade

[Dave85]

Ok i apologise if this has been covered BUT.

Why is the required population so high in TATW to upgrade a town > large town .... etc.

The jump is a believe from 2000 - 10,000. It will take me forever to get 10k pop with a ~4% growth rate.

May i have answers to the following:

1) Am i doing something wrong?

2) Do i have the correct patch (KTW 1.5, TATW 2.1)

3) is there a mod to change this

4) (if no to Q4) how do I edit this.

Thanks for your time ladies and gents :S

[paganmetal3r]

You're doing it right! But I don't know if there is a submod to change it.
The campaign is over 300 turns long so you just have to wait. You have enough time if you're patient

[jinjo]

it's even harder in castles where tax changes aren't possible

[Agamaran]

It's true, the vanilla game is set up so you have to stomach at least a hundred turns before things get interesting. If you're playing as Eriador you'll only have access to all that crappy militia. You're not alone in thinking that waiting 12 hours before you can actually start to play the game is stupendously stupid. That's why there are tons of submods that change this, like total recruitment, which lets you train all units right off the bat but with lengthy recruitment cool downs. As far as submods that change the population requirement to upgrade settlements, I'm not sure, but you could always add populations yourself with the add_population command.

Edit: Some people will tell you to put the tax rate to low to have a population boost. Don't do that. It'll just lead to your governors having terrible tax collection traits that will hurt you down the line.

[Barsoom]

You're not alone in thinking that waiting 12 hours before you can actually start to play the game is stupendously stupid.

Making friends, are you? Actually, every faction I've played had at least one starting city where I could train second tier units. Militia units are nothing to be frowned at either. A decent player will be able to take out his first opponent with militia and some second tier. Personally, I like being able to fight a few battles without trolls.

Edit: Some people will tell you to put the tax rate to low to have a population boost. Don't do that. It'll just lead to your governors having terrible tax collection traits that will hurt you down the line.

Several guides on these pages will tell you to keep taxes low except when you finish a building. Those traits won't trigger if you follow their advice.

[Agamaran]

Making friends, are you? Actually, every faction I've played had at least one starting city where I could train second tier units. Militia units are nothing to be frowned at either. A decent player will be able to take out his first opponent with militia and some second tier. Personally, I like being able to fight a few battles without trolls.

A few, sure. 147 battles before seeing anything beyond militia? No. I've taken out a faction with militia alone, yes, but only by god-stacking after god-stacking the whole lot. I have enough money to outfit four stacks of militia--you're telling me I can't buy them something better than pointy sticks and leather jerkins after fifteen years? No thanks, I'll just take Baron Samedi's stuff and start enjoying the game from turn one.

Several guides on these pages will tell you to keep taxes low except when you finish a building. Those traits won't trigger if you follow their advice.

Good to know. If I didn't like my money I might set my tax rates less than high then.

[Barsoom]

A few, sure. 147 battles before seeing anything beyond militia?

Depends on how fast you expand. Most of the time I have two battles a turn, so it runs up quickly. But, as I said, every faction I've played has at least one city or castle where you can build second tier units. Even Eriador. You only have to build one building or so.

@Dave85: There's a thread on traits in the Guides section of the forum. "Better generals" or something like that.

[Scorpius Centaurus]

Why is the required population so high in TATW to upgrade a town > large town .... etc.

Because TATW spans a time frame of only about 80 years or so. It becomes unrealistic to have the population growing faster.

You're not alone in thinking that waiting 12 hours before you can actually start to play the game is stupendously stupid.

the only thing that is stupendously stupid is THINKING that it takes 12 hours before you can start to play the game. The most fun I have with this game is in the first 50 turns.

[BulSoldier]

I dont think it is bad idea that you cant train high tier units.I actually managed to defeat orc of gundabad, orcs of mm and isengard with only using the militia units (spearmen and archers ) and general bodyguards.It wasnt easy for me but it was hell of a fun.

[Dave85]

oh ok thanks for the tips guys, this will be my first campaing ever in TW. I started a few in Kingdoms but got it wrong and found this mod, i love it!!

Think i will try the vanilla first.

[Dave85]

oh one thing... could you point me to a guide about bad trait triggered by low tax? I'm completely new to this and tbh the layout and guides on this website are not logical. Alot of information you have to search for a good hour or so :/

[NSFW]

Ok i apologise if this has been covered BUT.

Why is the required population so high in TATW to upgrade a town > large town .... etc.

The jump is a believe from 2000 - 10,000. It will take me forever to get 10k pop with a ~4% growth rate.

...

4) (if no to Q4) how do I edit this.

Thanks for your time ladies and gents :S

The file you want is descr_settlement_mechanics.xml, it lives in TATW's data folder.
If you look down to the end of the file there're population settings for each settlement level, including the size of pop required to upgrade to the next level.
Should be all pretty obvious what you need to do, once you're looking at it. Best of luck

[Dave85]

cool thankyou, however i quite like the pace of the vanilla TATW. Hoping PB's mod has an option to keep that pace, when it is updated ofc.

[ByzantineCaesar]

I don't know if this is a problem or something normal, but I just can't upgrade my settlements via add_population. I tried it with Annúminas (large city). I put 23,999 and the huge city level is 24,000 (isn't it? Either way, just one baby had to be born in order to upgrade). However, in my next turn I wasn't able to build the wall.

[Loco Mike]

I don't know if this is a problem or something normal, but I just can't upgrade my settlements via add_population. I tried it with Annúminas (large city). I put 23,999 and the huge city level is 24,000 (isn't it? Either way, just one baby had to be born in order to upgrade). However, in my next turn I wasn't able to build the wall.

Only a few place's are able to upgrade to Huge City/Citadel level & most of them are already at that level ( Minas Tirith, Barad-dur for example ) Im at work right now & dont have access to my saved links, but there is a list posted somewhere with all the place's that can be upgrade to Huge City/Citadel level.

However like i said most of these places are already at that level & are mainly places that are important to lotr lore.

[ByzantineCaesar]

Ok thanks! But Hornburg and Annúminas? They should be able to upgrade to max level. Can someone get me this list? I've tried to search but didn't find it.