The Orthodox religion

[codix105]

So I was reading the amazing works on the Byzantines by a scholar named John Julius Norwich and I have a question/ idea. So the great schism in 1054 it in Med. 2 they have no way to reconnect to rome. But in the 1300s and 1400s the the Byzantines were deep in trouble and the cost for aid was religious submission to Rome I think letting the Eastern orthodox factions choose Patriarch or Pope would be a good Idea. and I think that maybe there should be a way to recruit a Patriacrh like the Pope and bishops.

[VINC.XXIII]

"way to recruit a Patriacrh like the Pope and bishops. "

Care with that, only some greeks was apostats...the big majority of the Orthodoxs had hated the "new catholic" greek emperors...Just these conversions was some try to have more help from the Western against the Osmanlis...
I had read some books about this.
"Emperor and Priest", from Dagron, for example, excellent book, and one another, but no translitterable in english(french book)
But I think that Venexa or Zena must be excommunicated, if they attack the Byzantine emperor personnaly converted to the Catholic Church and allied to the Pope....
to see that my friend

[codix105]

oh K cool thnks I was just wondering because in the teutonic campaign Lithuainia can convert thank you i will look that up.

[Ixor_Drakar]

I thought when you leave a priest in Constantinopolis they turned into the Patriarch, or was that another mod?

[Bruce the Silver-Tongued]

I thought when you leave a priest in Constantinopolis they turned into the Patriarch, or was that another mod?

When you recruit a priest from Constantinople, there is a chance that he will be created with an ancillary "Patriarch of the Orthodox Church". That means they are they Patriarch.

Otherwise, when you create a priest in any city with a Cathedral / Huge Cathedral, they are almost always Bishops.

[codix105]

I dont think so

[Ixor_Drakar]

I knew it was something like that, haven't played the Romans in about a year.

[VINC.XXIII]

Ancillary archbishop3
Type pks_Religion
Transferable 0
Image patriarch.tga
Description archbishop3_desc
EffectsDescription archbishop3_effects_desc
Effect Piety 2
Effect MovementPoints 5

Condition AgentType = priest
and CharacterReligion orthodox
and EndedInSettlement
and not FactionwideAncillaryExists archbishop3
and not FactionwideAncillaryExists archbishop4
and FactionType byzantium

...

AcquireAncillary archbishop3 chance 60

The true title is needed too...personally I use "Patriarchos oekoumené", but isn't the true title...

[SicilianVespers]

hhmm....does anyone know if the all Orthodox faction can get a Patriarch of Constantinople?

I will have to look at the files, and we should add the other Patriarch as well.....

[VINC.XXIII]

"Patriarch of Constantinople?"
I think:no

"
and not FactionwideAncillaryExists archbishop4
and FactionType byzantium"

[Drtad]

Georgia and Armenia would have a "Catholicos" as opposed to a "Patriarch" (same is true for Syrian Orthodox, Assyrian, etc)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholicos

[VINC.XXIII]

We need to shearch the exact traduction for this guys too...something of totally misunderstanble for one non georgian or armenian speaker, just the explanations in english...

I speak about "Catholicos...and regional/confessional assignation.

[Drtad]

We need to shearch the exact traduction for this guys too...something of totally misunderstanble for one non georgian or armenian speaker, just the explanations in english...

I speak about "Catholicos...and regional/confessional assignation.

Like hierarchy? Armenian hierarchy goes something like this:

Catholicos (head of the church)
Archbishops
Bishops
Priests

Unfortunately I don't know if Georgian is exactly the same, but they have a Catholicos as well.

List of Armenian Catholicoi for each era:

The Dark Age: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_II_of_Armenia
The Early Era: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory...e_Martyrophile
The High Era: Hovhannes IV of Sis
The Late Era: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constan..._the_Woolmaker

[VINC.XXIII]

" Catholicos of the Armenian Apostolic Church"
sorry I"m armenian speaker^^...
I speak about: how have the true ceremonial traduction about this entire title? If he existed as well while the early stage or more later?
"of the Armenian Apostolic Church"...hum that sound some english^^

for exemple:

"patriarches œcuméniques de Constantinople"
"Patriarchos Oekumenoi tou Constantinoplis", or something, I'm not greek speaker, but that could look something like that, true vernacular expressions.To correct this title please, if someone have better...
I have a great book on this thread but I'm busy about the research of my french references for the new longbowmen

[Drtad]

" Catholicos of the Armenian Apostolic Church"
sorry I"m armenian speaker^^...
I speak about: how have the true ceremonial traduction about this entire title? If he existed as well while the early stage or more later?
"of the Armenian Apostolic Church"...hum that sound some english^^

Oh I see, so we need a transliteration...

Armenian Apostolic Church=Hayastanyayts Arakelakan Yegeghetsi
Catholicos=Katoghikos
Archbishop=Arkebiskopos
Bishop=Yebiskopos
Priest=Der Hayr

[VINC.XXIII]

Well I hope there are more guys than me who like don't understand(immersive effect...).
Its perfect from my point of view,truly...Hayasdan
I think in game the "simple" priest need to be get away, just we could keep the big functions. Who have politic/national interests.
Same for the Imam...replaced by Mufti of such...city and Ayatollah for the Shii.

[Bruce the Silver-Tongued]

Don't forget the Russians, with their Patriarch.

[VINC.XXIII]

"Don't forget the Russians, with their Patriarch. "
But for the Russians, their patriarchs became really important since the 14 century...when one greek patriarch had recognized the precedence to the Pope. The russian had claims their religious independance.
That could be an event for the Late Era.
Before this, the russian must obey to the greek authority about the rituals, dogmes...they could have one big metropolitan but certainly not one patriarch while the early period.

[philosophos]

the title of the patriarch of constantinople in greek : "Αρχιεπίσκοπος Νέας Ρώμης και Οικουμενικός Πατριάρχης"
" archiepiscopos Neas Romis ke icumenikos patriarchis" (read as the latin pronunciation) or simply "icumenikos patriarchis"
archibishop of new Rome and ecumenical patriarch

[AnthoniusII]

1st: Pope deserted the "One and Catholic Apostolic Church" and created his own RomaeoCatholic.
2nd: Many Emperors tried to reconect the two churches but that cuased more troubles and uprissings !
For Orthodox people Pope was the traitor that gave the title of the Roman Emperor to one that had no right (a barbarian) and the one that became the biggest heretic.
The Pope's moovement was not a real religius one but a political moovement that had to do with who would be the "boss" of Italy.
Basill II was dead so Germans seamed that they would eliminate easily the Lombards and the last Romans. He desided to join them and take part to offensive acts against Roman cities like Angon.
He (the Pope) had to "force" his followers to separate them selvs from the rest of the christians and so in 1054 he declaired that there was a translation gap between Latin and Greek versions of the Gospels that described the "Nature of God and the Holy Trinity".
He never explained though why there was not such an issue before when he was "1st among equals" of the Patriarchs.
Orthodox never forgot that and even later Pope interfeared to the Holly Lands (regions of Patriatch of Antiochea and Patriarch of Jerusaleem) when he ordered to slain orthodox,coptric and monophysit christians that were in the region when Crusaders qonquered those lands.
He (the Pope) took the holy places under his orders and exiled the Patriarch of Jerusaleem that had a very respectfull place among not only the cristians but among Muslims as well since the Arabic qonquest of Jerusaleem in 638ad!
Before Pope's priests came to Jerusaleem Cristians had no fear to worship their God no matter the dogma they followed.
After the 1st crusade other than Catholics ,cristians were executed or exiled more even than the muslims!!
So you can understand that it was impossible for the Orthodox people and Roman citizens of an empire that was near to death ,to forget and forgive such a treason. They prefaired to be under Islamic rule that many times honored Cristianity more than Catholics. Things became worst after the fall of Constantinople in 1204 and the great stealing of the empire's wealth that made europe rich. Catholics tried to change the religion by force ,by destroying cristian churches ,monasteries and by killing priests .
Islam was always more tolerant to cristians than the "cristians" them selvs!!
So in an historical mod there must be no option to change religion unless that option will be followed by a civil war event !

"Don't forget the Russians, with their Patriarch. "

The ONLY real and official Patriarch of Rus people is the one that is in Kiev!
The Patriarchee of Moscow is Great Peter's creation and had no official authority over the Rus orthodox but only the "power"
that Tzar's weal gave it!