Roman/Byzantine Empire

[Marcvs Antonivs]

I'm playing as Hungary, I'm now at war with the Eastern Roman Empire and DARN! OMGZOR! Aren't they WAYY overpowered? I mean they had 3 units of Scholarii or what the hell is that name, I just couldn't do anything against them! Them alone slaughtered almost half of my full stack! I know they were powerful bla bla bla and that we have to wait to have better units bla bla bla but shouldn't some units be toned down a little? They should have powerful troops but darn what do I counter them with? Sticks? Stones? If I send archers they do nothing against them, if I send spearmen they are slaughtered, if I send heavy cavalry (General) they are slaughtered... what can I do? I know it is a favourite among people here but way too overpowered... It may be historical, but there must be a gameplay balance here as well, anyone choosing the byzies just have a walk in the park against the stupid and weak ai plus weak troops in early campaign...

[JorisofHolland]

The good, old javelin will solve your problems, or at least reduce them a lot. Hungary has Slav levies, right?

[RC-1136]

Playing Sicily I have nearly the same problem. Their archers have a larger range than my crossbowmen, their infantry can only be countered by dismounted Norman Knights, every other infantry unit gets slaughtered by them and their cavalry is nearly as good as my Norman Knights. The casualties on my side after a victory against them are insanely high! Well, I can deal with it, but it is really annoying to know that you haven't really an advantage against their roster.
Their units are much more expensive than mine but the AI doesn't really care about it and spams armies with Kastrophylakes and Spathatoi as backbone and Stratiotae and Latinikon as cavalry.
Primarily the Stratiotae can handle my cavalry as well as my infantry as if they were some sort of heavy western knights!
A quote from their unit description:

While armed with heavy spears, swords and good quality armour, Stratiotae were not shock assault cavalry like western European knights.

It appears that the AI doesn't know about this fact and use them as

shock assault cavalry like western European knights.

[RC-1136]

Because of one cavalry unit? I'd hardly call that overpowered

No.

Playing Sicily I have nearly the same problem. Their archers have a larger range than my crossbowmen, their infantry can only be countered by dismounted Norman Knights, every other infantry unit gets slaughtered by them and their cavalry is nearly as good as my Norman Knights. The casualties on my side after a victory against them are insanely high! Well, I can deal with it, but it is really annoying to know that you haven't really an advantage against their roster.
Their units are much more expensive than mine but the AI doesn't really care about it and spams armies with Kastrophylakes and Spathatoi as backbone and Stratiotae and Latinikon as cavalry.
Primarily the Stratiotae can handle my cavalry as well as my infantry as if they were some sort of heavy western knights!
A quote from their unit description:

It appears that the AI doesn't know about this fact and use them as

Edit: Stupid no quote quotes-mechanics ...

[Marcvs Antonivs]

Slav Levies are cr*py spearmen... not javelineers

[chris7ian]

I'm playing as Hungary, I'm now at war with the Eastern Roman Empire and DARN! OMGZOR! Aren't they WAYY overpowered? I mean they had 3 units of Scholarii or what the hell is that name, I just couldn't do anything against them! Them alone slaughtered almost half of my full stack! I know they were powerful bla bla bla and that we have to wait to have better units bla bla bla but shouldn't some units be toned down a little? They should have powerful troops but darn what do I counter them with? Sticks? Stones? If I send archers they do nothing against them, if I send spearmen they are slaughtered, if I send heavy cavalry (General) they are slaughtered... what can I do? I know it is a favourite among people here but way too overpowered... It may be historical, but there must be a gameplay balance here as well, anyone choosing the byzies just have a walk in the park against the stupid and weak ai plus weak troops in early campaign...

They weren't that powerful historically. If they were they wouldn't have died, they aren't the Roman Empire of Rome who were lead by Romans like Julius Caesar...

And I agree. Flaming arrows are all that helps me with the HRE. You cant melee against them and if you charge your general into them while they are engaged on all sides you still lose half your bodyguard and inflict only minimal damage.

Be careful your opinion is not favored and you might get into arguments where you will be singled out and personally attacked for having an opinion and then expressing your opinion.

[newt]

Someone's stirring up the pot...

[chris7ian]

Someone's stirring up the pot...

"the truth shall set you free" And Im just letting him know what he's getting himself in for. And isn't your post off-topic and stirring the pot as well...

[Santeri]

Well, with full stack of horse archers I managed to kill two groups of them

[chris7ian]

Well, with full stack of horse archers I managed to kill two groups of them

Alas if only the HRE had horse archers sometime before 1300.

[Jambat]

"The emperor Manuel I Komnenos, for example, re-equipped his elite cavalry in the style of western knights." Why? Because they were better?

Or because he was well-known to be absolutely fascinated with Western Jousting Culture, even going as far as to setting up lists and participating in them (to the horror of the Romans).

Actually, of all armies I fought against, they had at least one unit of scholarii.

The only way this happens is if you disable RR. They cannot even make the unit for over a hundred turns in the early campaign, and in the late campaign they still have enough restrictions they cannot be used en masse. I have however seen some reports that when RR is disabled, it bugs out and the Romans are able to spam the ultra-strong/highly-limited units which does push them into overpowered boundries.

Someone's stirring up the pot...

Honest show of hands, is anyone surprised?

[newt]

Never seen that happen before 150 turns but if you read Ferdiad modded his game to 1 turn recruitment and disabled RR so that is not something that will likely happen in unmodded game. Things are usually balanced for a reason and take your own risks when trying something different.

Of course usually some large blobs start to form and Byz is often a culprint but as often I see Fatimids or Lithuania/Novgorod take 1/3 the map and none of those have these super cavalry you are giving credit to.

No, he had RR on, and added one turn recruitment. Disable RR had nothing to do with that mess!

[newt]

I'm tempted to start a Seljuk game to prove you guys wrong.

and I suck at horse archer factions

[Marcvs Antonivs]

I've done a test now, sent pavise spearmen against them, result? they lost only 20 horses. Sent magyar behind them, result: they lost about 10 horses from behind.... wow. I have nothing against ERE but Darn...

[Santeri]

Like I said full stack against two groups

I've done a test now, sent pavise spearmen against them, result? they lost only 20 horses. Sent magyar behind them, result: they lost about 10 horses from behind.... wow. I have nothing against ERE but Darn...

How about sending 2 groups of pavise spearmen and two groups of magyar. I think they would all die

[Marcvs Antonivs]

horse archers? you got to be kidding, I just tested it now it's like throwing feathers at them.

[chris7ian]

you need a panzerfaust lol. Those things are tanks not heavy cavalry.

[Marcvs Antonivs]

At this rate not even a panzerfaust will kill them.

[newt]

With tanks you need to double team them with spears....get them surrounded. If you take Constantinole asap, you'l never see a Scholarii ever again.

[Marcvs Antonivs]

Well if I need a full stack against 2 units of scholarii, at this rate what if they had 20 units of scholarii? I had to counter them with 40 full stacks... 2 pavise and horse archers at one single unit of cavalry is too much. seems to me that this is pretty much a chuck norris unit, only they are mounted.