1967 War - Israel invading its neighbours

[Vince Noir]

I see a lot of misinformed posts on the behalf of Israeli's on this board. Naturally, of course, you are surrounded in an environment where 'questioning what really happened' often results in you being publicly victimized, often to the tune of receiving daily death threats, see Ilan Pappe (some of his MA's students at Haifa Univeristy were even kicked out for publishing empirically sound research testifying to the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian populace immediately after the formation of Israel.)

However, and more to the point; what I often read here is the false assumption that the 1967 invasion was a 'preemptive strike'. This is rubbish. You only need to look at the words of Israel's own leaders at the time to understand that this has been a manufactured lie post to the fact in an attempt to excuse and justify Israel's illegal annexation of land. And it seems this lie has sunk deep in to your shallow, thickle minds.

The falsehood of the claim that Nasser was planning to attack Israel is clearly illustrated in the Israeli leaders own words. Yitzhak Rabin, chief of staff of the Israeli army at the time, stated: “I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to the Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it” (taken from E Monde, February 28, 1968). Israeli daily Yediot Ahronot, October 18, 1967) Prime Minister Levi Eshkol stated: "The Egyptian layout in the Sinai and the general military build up there testified to a military defensive Egyptian set-up, south of Israel." Modechai Bentov, an Israeli cabinet minister at the time, stated: "All this story about the danger of extermination [of Israel in June 1967] has been a complete invention and has been blown up a posterior [after the fact] to justify the annexation of Arab territory."

That is how this war of aggression was planned, provoked and effected bringing about this illegal occupation of Palestinian and Syrian land, has been allowed to continue for 40 years, in violation of international law and repeated UN Security Council resolutions.


EDIT:

I had to shorten the original post due to severe inabilities to read and comprehend the key points on behalf of Goodguy. Some people still can't be bothered to read more than a couple lines before posting...

Main points highlighted to make it even easier for you mate

[Dolgorukiy]

FFS Aren't you tired of repeating same old stupid crap and selling it as new?

[Tiberios]

Not exactly something new.

[eran]

The best part is where you take quotes out of context.

[♔Goodguy1066♔]

"To maintain the status quo will not do. We have set up a dynamic state bent upon expansion."

Oh great, a fake Ben Gurion quote. Haven't seen one of those for at least 20 minutes! This is the actual quote:

Our code must be framed to speed the absorption of immigrants into our economy, culture and society; to fuse the returning tribes into a homogeneous national and cultural unit; to forward our physical and moral healing and the cleansing of our lives from the trivia and dross which gathered upon us in dependence and exile. To maintain the status quo will not do. We have set up a dynamic State, bent upon creation and reform, building and expansion. Laws which lag behind development, merely a digest of experience and the lessons of the past, are useless to us. We need to anticipate the character of the times, discern embryonic forms emergent or renewed, and clear the path for circumstantial change.

You know very well what sort of expansion he meant. Even wikipedia knows the ways of the history-rapers by now:

A portion of this paragraph has sometimes been misquoted as: "To maintain the status quo will not do. We have to set up a dynamic state bent upon expansion."

As for the rest of this retarded thread, the Egpytians closed the Straits of Tiran to Israel, therefore blocking any ships coming to and from Eilat, and in 1957 Israel already stated that closing the straits would result in a decleration of war. Then Egypt and Jordan signed a defense pact and the following day the Iraqi army began deploying troops and armoured units to Jordan, and these were soon reinforced by an Egyptian contingent. Also, after signing the defense pact, Nasser said that any differences between him and Hussein were erased "in one moment" and declared: "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight." He even told one of his generals that "This time we will be the ones to start the war" - he was wrong, but you can't say the pre-emptive strike was simply for agression and expansion.

In short, don't try to rewrite history, stop embarresing yourself, and for the love of God at least try to put up a logical argument instead of out-of-context unsourced facts and quotes, and lies.

[Vince Noir]

Oh great, a fake Ben Gurion quote. Haven't seen one of those for at least 20 minutes! This is the actual quote:

You know very well what sort of expansion he meant. Even wikipedia knows the ways of the history-rapers by now:


As for the rest of this retarded thread, the Egpytians closed the Straits of Tiran to Israel, therefore blocking any ships coming to and from Eilat, and in 1957 Israel already stated that closing the straits would result in a decleration of war. Then Egypt and Jordan signed a defense pact and the following day the Iraqi army began deploying troops and armoured units to Jordan, and these were soon reinforced by an Egyptian contingent. Also, after signing the defense pact, Nasser said that any differences between him and Hussein were erased "in one moment" and declared: "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight." He even told one of his generals that "This time we will be the ones to start the war" - he was wrong, but you can't say the pre-emptive strike was simply for agression and expansion.

In short, don't try to rewrite history, stop embarresing yourself, and for the love of God at least try to put up a logical argument instead of out-of-context unsourced facts and quotes, and lies.

The best part is where you take quotes out of context.

A fake quote? You've resorted to that have you? Do you want to go to Rebirth and Destiny of Israel (1954), p. 419 and see those words for yourself? And your whining about the context of a planned invasion of another country and the destruction of innocent lives.
And Goodguy...Christ. The rest of your post...even from someone so deluded from getting down on their hands and knees and daily drinking the good will from the J Post. I'm not going to bother with spoon feeding you this one, like is done with you in every single thread. Those quotes can't be taken out of context. The context is in the quotes....its there, nothing more to discuss.

Such a ing moronic post...even for you.

[eran]

If you are faking quotes you are not sure anymore what is real and what is a lie you just really want to believe, aren't you?

[♔Goodguy1066♔]

A fake quote? You've resorted to that have you? Do you want to go to Rebirth and Destiny of Israel (1954), p. 419 and see those words for yourself?

Okay, I'll go do that:

Our code must be framed to speed the absorption of immigrants into our economy, culture and society; to fuse the returning tribes into a homogeneous national and cultural unit; to forward our physical and moral healing and the cleansing of our lives from the trivia and dross which gathered upon us in dependence and exile. To maintain the status quo will not do. We have set up a dynamic State, bent upon creation and reform, building and expansion. Laws which lag behind development, merely a digest of experience and the lessons of the past, are useless to us. We need to anticipate the character of the times, discern embryonic forms emergent or renewed, and clear the path for circumstantial change.
Our code must be framed to speed the absorption of immigrants into our economy, culture and society; to fuse the returning tribes into a homogeneous national and cultural unit; to forward our physical and moral healing and the cleansing of our lives from the trivia and dross which gathered upon us in dependence and exile. To maintain the status quo will not do. We have set up a dynamic State, bent upon creation and reform, building and expansion. Laws which lag behind development, merely a digest of experience and the lessons of the past, are useless to us. We need to anticipate the character of the times, discern embryonic forms emergent or renewed, and clear the path for circumstantial change.

You took a sentence out of context, ommited a few crucial words, and made it seem like Ben Gurion was suggesting that Israel is an expansionist state that goes on repeated Lebensraums for their own benefiet. Look at the quote:

To maintain the status quo will not do. We have set up a dynamic State, bent upon creation and reform, building and expansion. Laws which lag behind development, merely a digest of experience and the lessons of the past, are useless to us.

What expansion do you think he meant? Would he be talking about the enconomy, culture, healing, education, creation, reform, building, development and the changing times - and then out of the blue add that he supports Lebensraum? Or is he talking about a non-physical expansion? No, that's impossible, he's an evil Zionazi who annexes huge swathes of innocent states populated by orphans and puppy dogs and butterflies.

And your whining about the context of a planned invasion of another country and the destruction of innocent lives.

Erm, yes. I'm whining about the fact that Nasser blockades our acces outside of the Red Sea, signs a defensive pact with Hussein, sends his armies to Sinai and Jordan and has Iraq deploy troops and armoured vehicles to the border too, consistantly states that he is going to destroy Israel - and then in 2011 a history raper declares nothing of the sort happend and we just went on a Lebensraum against our neighbours for no reason.

Goodguy...Christ. The rest of your post is possibly the biggest fail imaginable

Says the OP of '1967 War - Israel invading its neighbours'.

even from someone so deluded from getting down on their hands and knees and daily drinking the good will from the J Post. I'm not going to bother with spoon feeding you this one by warped little friend, like is done with in every single thread.

Now I read J Post because I'm not some history-denier who thinks the Arabs weren't planning on invading Israel in 1967?

Those quotes can't be taken out of context. The context is inthe quotes....its there, nothing more to discuss. There IS NOT OTHER CONTEXT.

Let's see:

Hannah has huge melons.

Hannah has a huge garden, and in that garden she plants tomatoes, potatoes, carrots and melons.

Does melon mean the same thing in both of these quotes? No. Neither does expansion. You know very well what was meant by expansion, after he talked consistantly about culture, education and reform. Everyone has the ability to understand a basic figure of speech, yet you delete the innocent-sounding words surrounding expansion in order to claim he is a supproter of Lebensraum.

Such a ing moronic post...even for you.

Says the author of:

That is how this war of aggression was planned, provoked and effected bringing about this illegal occupation of Palestinian and Syrian land, has been allowed to continue for 40 years, in violation of international law and repeated UN Security Council resolutions.

This is the real history boys and girls.

I think it's exemplary of the fact that you will go to ANY lengths to save some of sort reputation for your disgusting country and its morally bankrupt and blood thirsty leaders/founders.

You just turned a pre-emptive strike into a war of expansion, yet you're saying I'm the one turning a blind eye.
Now, I'd like to introduce you to a very helpful book I've heard about:

It's a history book, and unlike you it doesn't butcher history just becayse they don't like a country.

[irontaino]

It's a history book, and unlike you it doesn't butcher history just becayse they don't like a country.

That's not always exactly true

[Vince Noir]

Mother have mercy...how you can just utterly go off on tangents Goodguy.

Okay, I'll go do that:

You took a sentence out of context, ommited a few crucial words, and made it seem like Ben Gurion was suggesting that Israel is an expansionist state that goes on repeated Lebensraums for their own benefiet. Look at the quote:

What expansion do you think he meant? Would he be talking about the enconomy, culture, healing, education, creation, reform, building, development and the changing times - and then out of the blue add that he supports Lebensraum? Or is he talking about a non-physical expansion? No, that's impossible, he's an evil Zionazi who annexes huge swathes of innocent states populated by orphans and puppy dogs and butterflies.

Yes, non physical expansion....

Erm, yes. I'm whining about the fact that Nasser blockades our acces outside of the Red Sea, signs a defensive pact with Hussein, sends his armies to Sinai and Jordan and has Iraq deploy troops and armoured vehicles to the border too, consistantly states that he is going to destroy Israel - and then in 2011 a history raper declares nothing of the sort happend and we just went on a Lebensraum against our neighbours for no reason.

Aw, poor little Israeli's, everyone just wants to destroy you after you ethnically cleanse an indigenous population and enslave them to life of repression, humiliation and destitution.

Says the OP of '1967 War - Israel invading its neighbours'.

Um, well that is what happened...

Does melon mean the same thing in both of these quotes? No. Neither does expansion. You know very well what was meant by expansion, after he talked consistantly about culture, education and reform. Everyone has the ability to understand a basic figure of speech, yet you delete the innocent-sounding words surrounding expansion in order to claim he is a supproter of Lebensraum.

Not really similar a semantic comparison. Actually way, way off. Almost laughable, but English isn't your first language so forgiven. The former example you make is a substitute descriptive adjective for the latter noun. Not to mention that it is slang...who doesn't understand basic linguistic concepts now?

Says the author of:

You just turned a pre-emptive strike into a war of expansion, yet you're saying I'm the one turning a blind eye.

Edit.Noble Savage Very disappointing Goodbuy. Actually, not really surprising though. I explicitly stated that it wasn't some sort of a just pre-emptive strike. Yitzhak Rabin, Levi Eshkol, Modechai Bentov seem to agree with this. Way to completely ignore the entire point of OP, as you regularly do.

It's a history book, and unlike you it doesn't butcher history just becayse they don't like a country.

...

You have done an outstanding job at writing dirvvle and not intelligibly putting forth any sort of argument. Since your unwilling to even address the OP seriously (too long for you?), maybe just start with motiv-8's post. Edit.Noble Savage

[ash874]

vince are you trying to assert that on 67 israel attacked all these guys
i never seen an aggressor attack multiple victims
its usually mulitple aggressors against one victim

[Oldgamer]

Mother have mercy...how you can just utterly go off on tangents Goodguy.



Yes, non physical expansion....


Aw, poor little Israeli's, everyone just wants to destroy you after you ethnically cleanse an indigenous population and enslave them to life of repression, humiliation and destitution.


Um, well that is what happened...

Not really similar a semantic comparison. Actually way, way off. Almost laughable, but English isn't your first language so forgiven. The former example you make is a substitute descriptive adjective for the latter noun. Not to mention that it is slang...who doesn't understand basic linguistic concepts now?

Edit.Noble Savage Very disappointing Goodbuy. Actually, not really surprising though. I explicitly stated that it wasn't some sort of a just pre-emptive strike. Yitzhak Rabin, Levi Eshkol, Modechai Bentov seem to agree with this. Way to completely ignore the entire point of OP, as you regularly do.


...

You have done an outstanding job at writing dirvvle and not intelligibly putting forth any sort of argument. Since your unwilling to even address the OP seriously (too long for you?), maybe just start with motiv-8's post. Edit.Noble Savage

So, let me get this straight, so that I can understand your erudition. You don't like Israel or Jews? Am I right?

[justicar5]

Oh great, a fake Ben Gurion quote. Haven't seen one of those for at least 20 minutes! This is the actual quote:

You know very well what sort of expansion he meant. Even wikipedia knows the ways of the history-rapers by now:


As for the rest of this retarded thread, the Egpytians closed the Straits of Tiran to Israel, therefore blocking any ships coming to and from Eilat, and in 1957 Israel already stated that closing the straits would result in a decleration of war. .

wait when a blockade happens to israel anything is justified, but a blockaded Hamas are terrorists for fighting back? Double standard much?

[Claudius Gothicus]

I'm pretty sure that the Arab League was going to attack Israel... their actions weren't really justified in any way but can you blame em? I mean back in the 60's Israel was fighting for it's survivability LITERALLY.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

can we have a poll of who supports israel and who opposes it? just out of interest
maybe even with possibility to see where you from and how old you are

Why do you care if some hippy in Portugal or Canada hates Isreal?

[MaccabiFanatic]

wait when a blockade happens to israel anything is justified, but a blockaded Hamas are terrorists for fighting back? Double standard much?

the difference is that israel is a country,a legitimate one. hamas IS a terror orgnization...
if another country puts a blockade on you it is an act of war...

[♔Goodguy1066♔]

wait when a blockade happens to israel anything is justified, but a blockaded Hamas are terrorists for fighting back? Double standard much?

Hamas are terrorists because they shoot at random civillians for the sole purpose of killing as many Jews as possible and use their own people as human sheilds, and the blockade started after Hamas came to power and terrorised Israelis and Palestinians. But that's beside the point, the point is the cease-fire agreement was that the Straits of Tiran mustn't be closed again or there will be war, and Egpyt closed the Straits of Tiran. Egypt then signed a defensive pact with Jordan and sent their units to aid Jordanian and Iraqi troops, and into Sinai. Nasser repeatedly went on about how he is going to destroy Israel and how the Arabs are going to start a war, the Arab armies were being deployed, one didn't need to have the most developed secret services in the reigon to know a pre-emptive strike was needed, and up untill this retarded thread I haven't even heard people like Amagi propose that the Six Day War was concieved by Israel.

Not really similar a semantic comparison. Actually way, way off. Almost laughable, but English isn't your first language so forgiven. The former example you make is a substitute descriptive adjective for the latter noun. Not to mention that it is slang...who doesn't understand basic linguistic concepts now?

The point still stands; explain why David Ben Gurion would go on about development, reform, education, advancement and out of the blue mention lebensraum and go back to innocent non-militairistic terms again.
You took a figure of speech, or a metaphor, or whatever you want to call it - deleted the words that didn't reflect Ben Gurion as an expansionist monster, and then played dumb when you were told he didn't mean literal expansion. Look at the context FFS, you misquoted him and you know it.

Back on to the main topic, all your arguments for the stupid claim of 'the Six Day War was concieved by Israel' is 'but this guy said' and 'that guy said' and 'Goodguy's a doofus'. The Six Day War was a pre-emptive strike, that is a historical fact and will continue to remain so despite the best efforts of history deniers. When you've got an actual argument thought out, notify me.

Why did Isreal atack the west bank in the first place?

I'll give you a hint: they didn't.

[PointOfViewGun]

and the blockade started after Hamas came to power and terrorised Israelis and Palestinians.

There has been a blockade against Gaza since 2001, not since Hamas got elected. By 2007 it simply turned into an active siege.

[♔Goodguy1066♔]

There has been a blockade against Gaza since 2001, not since Hamas got elected. By 2007 it simply turned into an active siege.

Argh! Fine, I was wrong, let's get back to the main point. Something from 2001 isn't going to change something back in 1967.

[Vince Noir]

Back on to the main topic, all your arguments for the stupid claim of 'the Six Day War was concieved by Israel' is 'but this guy said' and 'that guy said' and 'Goodguy's a doofus'. The Six Day War was a pre-emptive strike, that is a historical fact and will continue to remain so despite the best efforts of history deniers. When you've got an actual argument thought out, notify me.

The Israeli President at the time, the Chief of Staff, and a cabinet minister...and that's what you have to say? Let me just get this straight. I quoted:

"I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to the Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it” (taken from E Monde, February 28, 1968). Israeli daily Yediot Ahronot, October 18, 1967)

Prime Minister Levi Eshkol stated: "The Egyptian layout in the Sinai and the general military build up there testified to a military defensive Egyptian set-up, south of Israel."

Modechai Bentov, an Israeli cabinet minister at the time, stated: "All this story about the danger of extermination [of Israel in June 1967] has been a complete invention and has been blown up a posterior [after the fact] to justify the annexation of Arab territory."

And you come back with

all your arguments for the stupid claim of 'the Six Day War was concieved by Israel' is 'but this guy said' and 'that guy said' and 'Goodguy's a doofus'. The Six Day War was a pre-emptive strike, that is a historical fact and will continue to remain so despite the best efforts of history deniers. When you've got an actual argument thought out, notify me

There are literally no words to describe this stupidity. Edit.Noble Savage