Horsemen Of The Steppe

[Tatarasei]

Volga Bulgars icon/symbol:

[Silesian_Noble]

Nice findings Tatarasei, we will definitely make use of it. About the wolf - wasn't it like that the wolf was a generic symbol for nomadic Turks? Because in such case I would rather use the more unique symbol with three arrows.

BTW, please try to edit post instead of making one after another.

[Tatarasei]

Nice findings Tatarasei, we will definitely make use of it. About the wolf - wasn't it like that the wolf was a generic symbol for nomadic Turks? Because in such case I would rather use the more unique symbol with three arrows.

BTW, please try to edit post instead of making one after another.

yes Wolf was generic symbol for all nomadic Turks and Mongols. You can make better a symbol for the Oghuzes with Golden Bow & three arrows - Golden Bow & Three Arrows can you find it too in Myth of the Oghuz Khan. Okay

Bow and three arrow was the symbol of sovereignty, you can use that for flag of Oghuz.(Early Seljuks used it too)

What do you think about that ?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

-Kipchak Auxiliaries
-Oghuz Er(Low class light horse archers)
-Dismounted Oghuz Er
-Oghuz Yatuk(non-nomad Oghuz people who live in the villages and towns,town-village guards, light swordsmen)
-Oghuz Yalıq(or Yaylıq) Yatuk( lesser skilled foot archers)
-Oghuz Yigit(medium horse archers, like kipchak baghaturs)
-Dismounted Oghuz Yigit
-Oghuz Alp(Elites of the Oghuz Yigits, effective on both melee and missile)
-Oghuz Begs(Heavy horse archers)
-Dismounted Oghuz Begs
-Kul(like İslamic ghulam system captured prisoners of war become guards of begs and yabgu, heavy lancers)
-Dismounted Kul(Foot guards)

btw which title are you going to use for Oghuz leader ? Yabgu or Baygu ?

About unit list Oghuz Er in Old Oghuz language E = i like ir / Oghuz ir and Yigit in old Oghuz language is Batır / Batyr yigit is for Baghatur in Modern Turks. and kul mean slave maybe you mean with kul ( kül / köl ) place kul can we add better this as guards: Giray, Tarkhan or Sü-Başı

The state was reigned by the ruler of the Oguz Turks with the title of Yabgu which is similar with other Turkish ruling titles such as Khan, Giray, and Kagan/Hakan, but initially with a status below Kagan/Hakan. The army was commanded by Subaşı. "Sü" (su) means "Army" in Turkish and "başı" (bashi) is for "the head of" or "the ruler of".

[cebecibasi41]

Yes , wolf is ancient symbol of Turks. If you can't find any faction symbol and flag, you can use something with wolf.

[Tureuki]

Bow and three arrow was the symbol of sovereignty, you can use that for flag of Oghuz.(Early Seljuks used it too)

What do you think about that ?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

-Kipchak Auxiliaries
-Oghuz Er(Low class light horse archers)
-Dismounted Oghuz Er
-Oghuz Yatuk(non-nomad Oghuz people who live in the villages and towns,town-village guards, light swordsmen)
-Oghuz Yalıq(or Yaylıq) Yatuk( lesser skilled foot archers)
-Oghuz Yigit(medium horse archers, like kipchak baghaturs)
-Dismounted Oghuz Yigit
-Oghuz Alp(Elites of the Oghuz Yigits, effective on both melee and missile)
-Oghuz Begs(Heavy horse archers)
-Dismounted Oghuz Begs
-Kul(like İslamic ghulam system captured prisoners of war become guards of begs and yabgu, heavy lancers)
-Dismounted Kul(Foot guards)

btw which title are you going to use for Oghuz leader ? Yabgu or Baygu ?

[gogo t]

Why don't you turn the starting date to 1000 not 1040... this way you would be able to include balkan's bulgaria too \using TGC's Bulgarian units\ ... that way the balkans would be full and actually total war + Bulgarian tzardom at it's first period \first bulgarian empire\ is still cavalry orientated

Edit: still great idea

[AnthoniusII]

Why don't you turn the starting date to 1000 not 1040... this way you would be able to include balkan's bulgaria too \using TGC's Bulgarian units\ ... that way the balkans would be full and actually total war + Bulgarian tzardom at it's first period \first bulgarian empire\ is still cavalry orientated

Edit: still great idea

Yea TGC's bulgarians (their finall version that is 99.9% done) could easily fit in the mod. TGC covers a timeline that reach 1071ad.
A cooperation between the two mods could be done.

[Silesian_Noble]

Thanks to everybody who inputs his knowledge to HotS project.


Great news is that I started the work on the map as I promised before. I will keep you informed with the progress

Why don't you turn the starting date to 1000 not 1040... this way you would be able to include balkan's bulgaria too \using TGC's Bulgarian units\ ... that way the balkans would be full and actually total war + Bulgarian tzardom at it's first period \first bulgarian empire\ is still cavalry orientated

Edit: still great idea

Gogo I do like Danube Bulgarians and they would suit nicely to the steppic mod but... I can't change the starting date to 1000y unfortunately. The date of 1040 was deeply thought and long researched. As I wrote in the opening post, in 1040y or shortly before some crucial events happened and those events created exceptional political situation which is very suitable for a steppic mod purpose. As a consolation I can mention that there will be Volga Bulgarians and they will be strong with very interesting starting position (some unique neighbours around).

[StuporMundi]

Just remembered I possess the 'Historical Atlas Of Central Asia' by Yuri Bregel. Do you have this ace resource, Silesian?

Here are two maps related to your start date:

-1040

And...

1040+

Cool?

[Silesian_Noble]

Yes, I have the whole Atlas by Yuri Bregel. But thanks anyway, it is nice to know that the you guys want to help

[StuporMundi]

Okay. Good to know.

[Silesian_Noble]

I present you below a quick summary of the fellows that are engaged in HotS project.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HOTS MODDERS
(in alphabetical order)

cedric37 - 2d artist (irregular fellow-worker, as he is busy with other projects too)
karaislam - implementation of various elements like submods; (will start his work a bit later due to technical problems)
Rus-Bey - unit creation (irregular fellow-worker, as he is busy with other project too)
Silesian_Noble - leader, mapper, scripter, researcher and who knows what more

demand:
- scripters
- coders
- 2d/3d artists

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HOTS RESEARCHERS
(in alphabetical order)

ALFAJI- Mosul, other Arabic
atalay1988- Qumans, Kyrgyz, Western Qarahanids, Eastern Qarakhanids, Volga-Bulgars, Khwarezm, Seljuks, Oghuz, Pechenegs, Uighurs
Boztorgai_Khan - mostly Qipchaks, Qumans, Kimaks
Eisberg - Arran
mahmood95 - Khwarezm
matmohair1- Abbasids, Fatimids, Mosul
Russian Gondor - Thaiga, Great Perm, Kiev, Kyrgyz, Kimaks.
Tatarasei - Kara Khitan, Ghaznavids
Tureuki - Oghuz, Seljuks, other Turkish


demand:
- northern factions: Kiev, Great Perm, Taiga, especialy with an access to great Russian sources
- south-east factions: Ghurids, Ghaznavids, Kashmir, Guge
- Caucasian factions: Georgia, Alania
- Hungary
- Eastern Romans
- KoJ
- Kara Khitan

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Remember! - if you like the idea of HotS project, have some modding skills or historical knowledge, you are welcome to join!

[Tatarasei]

I present you below a quick summary of the fellows that are engaged in HotS project.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HOTS MODDERS
(in alphabetical order)

cedric37 - 2d artist (irregular fellow-worker, as he is busy with other projects too)
karaislam - implementation of various elements like submods; (will start his work a bit later due to technical problems)
Rus-Bey - unit creation (irregular fellow-worker, as he is busy with other project too)
Silesian_Noble - leader, mapper, scripter, researcher and who knows what more

demand:
- scripters
- coders
- 2d/3d artists

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HOTS RESEARCHERS
(in alphabetical order)

ALFAJI- Mosul, other Arabic
atalay1988- Qumans, Kyrgyz, Western Qarahanids, Eastern Qarakhanids, Volga-Bulgars, Khwarezm, Seljuks, Oghuz, Pechenegs, Uighurs
Boztorgai_Khan - mostly Qipchaks, Qumans, Kimaks
Eisberg - Arran
mahmood95 - Khwarezm
matmohair1- Abbasids, Fatimids, Mosul
Tureuki - Oghuz, Seljuks, other Turkish

demand:
- northern factions: Kiev, Great Perm, Taiga, especialy with an access to great Russian sources
- south-east factions: Ghurids, Ghaznavids, Kashmir, Guge
- Caucasian factions: Georgia, Alania
- Hungary
- Eastern Romans
- KoJ
- Kara Khitan

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Remember! - if you like the idea of HotS project, have some modding skills or historical knowledge, you are welcome to join!

Give me then Ghaznavids and Kara Khitan's I research that too

[tibu17]

In 1040 the king in hungary (Orseolo;German)Peter

[Constantius]

You have a very nice team here, I'm glad because I am really looking forward to it, best of luck.

[Constantius]

Perhaps, Tsar Peter II could be present, the uprising of 1040, may of succeeded, it could be up to the player to give it success, just a thought

[Silesian_Noble]

Give me then Ghaznavids and Kara Khitan's I research that too

OK mate, I'm adding you to the list

Yea TGC's bulgarians (their finall version that is 99.9% done) could easily fit in the mod.

Right now I can promise only a few Danube Bulgarian units available within AoR.

TGC covers a timeline that reach 1071ad.

A cooperation between the two mods could be done.

I'm very pleased to hear that, Anthonius! Also would you do us that honour and be our Eastern Romans historian? The Greeks is a very important faction in HotS mod and I want to design them as good as they deserve (and they deserve a lot ).

Perhaps, Tsar Peter II could be present, the uprising of 1040, may of succeeded, it could be up to the player to give it success, just a thought

Believe me, I also thought about it. But they would occupy an edge of the map with no sight for easy conquest of rebellious provinces and with angry Greeks coming with all their great might to crush the rebellion. If I had a few more free faction slots... they would be second to add (after Naimans).

In 1040 the king in hungary (Orseolo;German)Peter

Please, do not post single info researched in English wiki because we could easily get drowned in such posts. If you want to help – you are welcome to post a well prepared info.

[AnthoniusII]

My friend you know CBUR policy.
When the new byzantine roster will be finished it will be available (as the previus one) for everyone here in TWC with the suport for it.

[Silesian_Noble]

Some news from the front for our supporters. Map development is going well. Map will be huge (1021 x 675), right now after defining land masses and waters I'm putting the rivers on. Of course this is very early stage of development, but I hope to start placing settlements and to launch the flat map this week. Also the researchers have started info collection so HotS keeps the right course. Of course you are welcome to join our team and therefore to speed our development!

My friend you know CBUR policy.
When the new byzantine roster will be finished it will be available (as the previus one) for everyone here in TWC with the suport for it.

That is really great But we will need some more support, for example in settlements issue (to choose the most suitable ones, to define right infrastructure level), emperor family and major generals (that lived in 1040y), economy issues (distribution of trade resources), major events (for period 1040-1205) that could influence the gameplay and probably the simplest one - reference for most appropriate faction symbol. I know nobody better then you in Greeks history so you would be the best EoER history advisor for us. But if you don't have spare time that you could spend on HotS research (after all you are already very busy with many other projects, like TGC or CBUR) maybe you could recommend another solid EoER history advisor for us?

[Tatarasei]

Ghaznavid Empire:

Family Tree

Alptigin - 961-963 ( Slave-Turk origin ) - birth date 890 death date 963? age 27 in 1040 was age 150

Bilge Tegin - 963-975 ( Slave-Turk origin ) - birth date 893? death date 975 age 82 in 1040 was age 153

Böri Tegin - 975-977 ( Slave-Turk origin ) - birth date 894? death date 9?? age ?? in 1040 age ???


Sebüktigin - 977-997 ( Slave-Turk origin ) - birth date 942? death date 997 age was 55 in 1040 was age 98

Second son of Sebüktigin is Esma'il - 997-998 - birth date 972 death date 998? age 26 in 1040 was age 68
Esma'il's sons:
Alp-Tegin birth date 997? death date 10?? in 1040 was age 44 ( he give his eldest son this name because general of his father was the founded the ghaznavids empire )

Sebük-Tegin birth date 999? death date 10?? in 1040 was age 41 ( he gived his second youngest son this name because it was name of his father and great grand-father's name )


First son of Sebüktigin is Mahmüd ( Mahmud of Ghaznavid - Great Sultan ) - 998-1030 - birth date 971 death date 1030 age is 59 in 1040 was age 69

Mahmud of Ghaznavids Sons is

Mohammad - 1030-1041 birth date 997 death date 1041 age is 44 in 1040 was age 43 ( his son Ahmed )

Masüd I - 1030-1041 ( Masüd I was the Royal Sultan after Mahmud of Ghaznavi ) in Mod can you add Masüd I as Sultan of the all Ghaznavids the Faction Leader. birth date 998 death date 1041 afe is 43 in 1040 was age 42

Abd-al Rasid - 1049-52 birth date 1000 death date 1052? age is 52 in 1040 was 40


Mohammad's son: Ahmed birth date 1009 death date ? in 1040 was age 31


Masüd I sons is:

Mawdüd - 1041-1048 ( First son of Masüd I and Crown Prince after his death became his son Masüd II, Masüd II's mother was the Daughter of Chagri Beg from Great Seljuk-Türks. ) birth date 1011 death date 1049 age 38 in 1040 was age 29

Ali - 1048-1049 birth date 1012? death date 1049 age 37 in 1040 was age 28

Farrokzäd - 1053-1059 birth date 1014? death date 1059 age 45 in 1040 was age 26

Ebrahim - 1059-1099 birth date 1016? death date 1099 age 83 in 1040 was age 24


Mawdüd's son is

Mas'üd II - 1048-1049 birth date 1031 death date 1??? in 1040 age was 9


Ebrahim's son

Mas'üd III - 1099-1115 birth date 1061 death date 1115 age 54 in 1040 age was -21

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Map


Banner/Flag






Mahmüd of Ghazni

About Ghaznavids

Battle of Dandānqān, (1040), decisive clash between the forces of the Ghaznavid sultan Masʿūd I (reigned 1031–41) and the nomad Turkmen Seljuqs in Khorāsān. The battle resulted in Masʿūd’s defeat and the Seljuq takeover of Ghaznavid territory in Iran and Afghanistan.

The late 1030s saw a struggle for supremacy in Khorāsān between Masʿūd and the Seljuqs, led by Toghrïl Beg. Taking advantage of a growing Ghaznavid weakness, Toghrïl gradually expanded his influence and began taking over territories formerly administered by the Ghaznavids. In 1037 Merv fell voluntarily to the Seljuqs, followed likewise in 1038 by the cities of Herāt and Nīshāpūr (modern Neyshabur, Iran). In 1040 Masʿūd’s army, led by Masʿūd himself, was forced to fight at Dandānqān, a fortress in the desert between Merv and Sarakhs. The Seljuqs attacked with 16,000 horsemen and routed the Ghaznavids. Masʿūd was forced to flee to India; he was deposed, and Khorāsān passed to the Seljuqs.

decline of Ghaznavid empire;
Maḥmūd’s son Masʿūd I (reigned 1031–41) was unable to preserve the power or even the integrity of the Ghaznavid empire. In Khorāsān and Khwārezm, Ghaznavid power was challenged by the Seljuq Turks. Masʿūd suffered a disastrous defeat at the Battle of Dandānqān (1040), whence all the Ghaznavid territories in Iran and Central Asia were lost to the Seljuqs. The Ghaznavids were left in possession of eastern Afghanistan and northern India, where they continued to rule until 1186, when Lahore fell to the Ghūrids.

Little survives of Ghaznavid art, but the period is important for its influence on the Seljuq Turks in Iran and on later Islāmic art in India.

from: http://www.worldcat.org/title/ghazna...0/oclc/3601436