Horsemen Of The Steppe

[Grymloq]

[toluas]

Nice.

[Silesian_Noble]

I think I will introduce two changes on the map:

to remove:
1. Aydhab
- reason: Fatimids got realy comfortable situation and plenty provinces already
2. Iconium or Attalia
- reason: right now Romans/Greeks got 19 provinces at start, definitely the most of all

to add:
1. province for Emirate of Mosul, it could be Anbar/Samarra/Dakuka/Nasibin - issue to be discussed with Arabic researchers
- reason: Emirate of Mosul is situated among the largest factions and they got very dificult situation while they should be strong with good perspective for development
2. province for the Great Sultanate of Seljuks, it could be Bistam or Serakhs or something else in that area
- reason: we need to give the Seljuks best potential for development. They should be the most powerful faction in the game, as in history of that period.

Good news is that v1499 gave us permission to use his Chinese units. Some of them could be used for Kara Khitans, and some could be available for recruitment within AoR of provinces like Dunhuang and Cherchen. Also v1499 agreed to advise us with issues related with the eastern lands of HotS map. Thank you v1499 for your precious support

[ALFAJI]

see give mosel sinjar city and sammera if you want

[Tureuki]

Samarra and Serakhs are good choices I think.

[VINC.XXIII]

I'm forward to see the concept art about the units.
The Cuman Roster appear to me as...exhaustiv!

[Silesian_Noble]

So I think the new provinces will be Samarra and Serakhs. But Alfaji, are we sure that Samarra was controlled by Emirate of Mosul in 1040y?

I think I will change also Tbilisi with something that was realy under Georgian control. Also some changes within Hungarian provinces are likely as from the research I have recently made it turns out that Kassa had little importance in 1040y.

Speaking about Hungary, the work on the concept of its roster is in progress.

Also I think I will modify Egyptian provinces, I will not remove Aydhab. I will remove both Aswan and Asyut and replace them with Qift which is located half way between Aswan and Asyut.

I'm forward to see the concept art about the units.
The Cuman Roster appear to me as...exhaustiv!

Yeah but it will take some time. I'm during education of how to mod units. Good news is that Thrashing_Mad (known from projects like Dominium Maris Baltici or Polished Poland) agreed to support me in dealing with any problems I may find during that education. He is a great and experienced 2d/3d artist and his native language is the same as mine (Polish) so I can't imagine a better mentor

[Silesian_Noble]

Here is an update in HotS progress:

1. some small map improvments

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I have changed:
1. Aswan (of Fatimids) with Samara (of Mosul)
2. Attalia (of ERE) with Serakhs (of Seljuks)
3. Asyut with Qift (both Fatimids)
4. Kassa with Csanad (both Hungarian)
5. Serem with Zagrab (both Hungarian)

Refreshed map views:





Some screen shoots:

2. Hungarian roster concept

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It will definitely be improved, I discuss it with Csatadi and Dome.

CAVALRY

name: Inseg horsemen
description: poor tribal horse archers
class: light
armor: padded
primary weapon: composite bow
secondary weapon: sabre
skills: average
stamina: standard
morale: average
availability: very good
price: low

name: Boseg horsemen
description: richer tribal horse archers
class: light/medium
armor: padded+helmets / partially lamellar or mailed
primary weapon: composite bow
secondary weapon: spear, small round shield
skills: very good
stamina: good
morale: very good
availability: good
price: high

name: Jobbagyur cavalry
description: ruler's elite unit
class: medium / heavy
armor: partially mailed or lamellar / mailed or lamellar
primary weapon: composite bow
secondary weapon: sabre, medium round shield
skills: very good
stamina: very good
morale: very good
availability: very low
price: very high

name: Black Magyars horsemen
description: tribal cavalry originated in turkic allied tribes (like Kabars)
class: light/medium
armor: padded + helmets/partially mailed or lamellar
primary weapon: composite bow
secondary weapon: mace, small round shield
skills: good
stamina: good
morale: good
availability: average
price: average

name: Szekelys horsemen
description: famous horse archers settled in mostly boarderland areas
class: light/medium
armor: padded + helmets/partially mailed or lamellar
primary weapon: composite bow
secondary weapon: sabre, small round shield
skills: very good
stamina: very good
morale: very good
availability: average
price: high

name: Pecheneg horsemen
description: Pechenegs refugee which served Hungarian king
class: light
armor: padded+helmets
primary weapon: composite bow
secondary weapon: mace
skills: good
stamina: very good
morale: average
availability: average
price: average

name: Croat cavalry
description: Slavic horsemen from Slavonia
class: medium
armor: partially mailed
primary weapon: spear, teardrop shield
secondary weapon: axe, teardrop shield
skills: good
stamina: good
morale: average
availability: average
price: average

name: Mounted servientes
description: the knights that appeaed in Hungary with Christianity adoption were assisted by them
class: light/medium
armor: padded+helmets/partially mailed
primary weapon: spear, teardrop shied
secondary weapon: axe, teardrop shied
skills: average
stamina: average
morale: average
availability: very good
price: average

name: Feudal knights
description: late unit', feudalism spred very slowly in Hungary, but as the time passed more and more native knights appeared in Hungarian army
class: heavy
armor: fully mailed, barded horse
primary weapon: spear, kite shield
secondary weapon: sword, kite shield
skills: very good
stamina: very good
morale: very good
availability: average
price: very high

name: German knights
description: those are knights from Swabia and Bavaria which were invited and settled by Hungarian ruler
class: heavy
armor: fully mailed
primary weapon: spear, large kite shield
secondary weapon: sword, kite shield
stamina: very good
skills: great
morale: very good
availability: low
price: very high

name: Royal guard
description: general bodyguards
class: heavy
armor: fully mailed
primary weapon: spear, large norman shield
secondary weapon: sword, large norman shield
skills: very good
stamina: very good
morale: very good
availability: general unit
price: -


INFANTRY

name: Varjobbagy archers
description: castle soldiers of mostly Slavic origin, non noble freemen
class: light
armour: padded+helmets
primary weapon: composite bow
secondary weapon: sabre, shield
skills: good
stamina: good
morale: good
availability: good
price: low

name: Inseg archers
description: poor tribal archers
class: light
armor: no / padded
primary weapon: composite bow
secondary weapon: dagger
skills: average
stamina: average
morale: average
availability: good
price: low

name: Boseg archers
description: richer tribal archers
class: light
armor: padded + helmets / partially mailed or lamellar
primary weapon: composite bow
secondary weapon: spear, small round shield
skills: good
stamina: good
morale: good
availability: average
price: high

name: Varjobbagy javeliners
description: castle soldiers of mostly Slavic origin, non noble freemen
class: light
armor: padded + helmets
primary weapon: javelins
secondary weapon: round shield + light axe
skills: good
stamina: good
morale: good
availability: average
price: average

name: Crossbow militia
description: late unit originated in mostly non-Magyar town's western settlers
class: light
armor: padded + helmets
primary weapon: xbow
secondary weapon: sword
skills: average
stamina: average
morale: average
availability: low
price: high

name: Varjobbagy spearmen
description: castle soldiers of mostly Slavic origin, non noble freemen
class: medium
armor: padded + helmets/partially lamellar or mailed
primary weapon: spear, round shield
secondary weapon: -
skills: good
stamina: good
morale: good
availability: good
price: average

name: Spear militia
description: late unit originated in mostly non-Magyar town's western settlers
class: medium
armor: padded+helmets / partially mailed
primary weapon: spear, teardrop shield
secondary weapon: -
skills: average
stamina: average
morale: average
availability: good
price: average

name: Feudal footmen
description: late unit, rich feudals could afford own castles and footmen that garrison them
class: light / medium
armor: padded + helmets / partially lamellar or mail
primary weapon: axe, teardrop shield
secondary weapon: -
stamina: average
morale: average
availability: average
price: average

name: Dismounted knights
description: late unit, knights sometimes fought on foot
class: heavy
armor: full mailed
primary weapon: sword, large norman shield (kite)
secondary weapon: -
stamina: very good
morale: very good
availability: low
price: very high

name: Varyag axemen
description: Hungarian rulers similar to neighbours like ERE, Kiev or Poland recrutited famous norse warriors
class: medium/heavy
armor: partially lamellar or mail/fully lamellar or mail
primary weapon: 2h axe
secondary weapon: -
stamina: very good
morale: very good
availability: very low
price: very high

3. Addition to Quman roster concept

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

After reading Ospray Atilla and the nomad hordes I decided to add one more unit to Quman roster - Javelin horsemen. So the Quman roster would look more or less like that:

CAVALRY

Shepard horsemen
Tribal horsemen
Tribal lancers
Boarder horsemen
Camel riders
Khan horse archers
Khan lancers
Noble horsemen
Noble lancers
Khan guard

Name: Javelin horsmen
description: Qumans liked to hunt with javelins, sometimes they used them in battle
class: light
armor: padded + helmets
primary weapon: javelins
secondary weapon: sabre
stamina: good
morale: average
availability: average
price: low

INFANTRY

Shepard archers
Tribal archers
Noble archers
Tribal spearmen
Khan spearmen
Tribal axemen
Khan footmen
Noble footmen

Sorry for the slow progress but I'm renovating my flat right now so my spare time is very little these days

[MikeNice808]

How come this mod doesnt appear in the TW Center list of mods or mods in progress...I stumbled on this mod while reading posts and am happy I did....I can't wait for it to be released...

[MikeNice808]

Wow...who woulda thought one man woukd stop a whole thread....the truth hurts....

[Silesian_Noble]

Wow...who woulda thought one man woukd stop a whole thread....the truth hurts....

I have no idea what you mean. Right now I'm very busy with my RL and this is why I haven't updated the thread for a few days. But my desire to make HotS mod is not even a bit lesser (if not higher ). If you are so much interested in HotS project (and I'm really glad people are interested in it) then you are welcome to support it with your work. Can you mod? Or maybe you have some nice sources for historical research?

[MikeNice808]

I have no idea what you mean. Right now I'm very busy with my RL and this is why I haven't updated the thread for a few days. But my desire to make HotS mod is not even a bit lesser (if not higher ). If you are so much interested in HotS project (and I'm really glad people are interested in it) then you are welcome to support it with your work. Can you mod? Or maybe you have some nice sources for historical research?

I have no modding skills whatsoever. Sometimes I have trouble installing them on my computer. But I have a keen interest in this mod and would be more than happy to do some research. Can you be more specific. I would like to specialize with Kiev but could do more on anything. Im unemployed right now so I have the time. Let me know in what areas. I dont mind doing some work for ya. I got the internet afterall so info is a button away...

[Silesian_Noble]

I have no modding skills whatsoever. Sometimes I have trouble installing them on my computer. But I have a keen interest in this mod and would be more than happy to do some research. Can you be more specific. I would like to specialize with Kiev but could do more on anything. Im unemployed right now so I have the time. Let me know in what areas. I dont mind doing some work for ya. I got the internet afterall so info is a button away...

Well I need Kievian researcher but it should be somebody who can read Cyrilic. So if you can then that would be great In such case you could also scan Russian/Ukrainian sources for info related with factions that land of which used to be or is now under ZSRR/Russia/Ukraine control, so Pecheneg, Qumans, Volga Bulgaria, Bashkirs, Great Perm, Taiga, Qipchaks, Kyrgyz, Kimek etc. BTW I have have looked at your profile and wonder - are you from Poland?

[Boztorgai_Khan]

I Upload a Picture of the Kimäk's Go To The Western Steppes became First Kipchaks, Later Cumans: Broke up into separate in 3::

1000's AD Century


The Kypchak languages may be broken down into three groups, based on geography and shared features:

Kypchak-Bolgar (Uralo-Caspian), including Bashkir and Tatar (including Siberian Tatar, Mishar Tatar, Astrakhan Tatar, Baraba Tatar, etc.)

Kypchak-Cuman (Ponto-Caspian), including Karachay-Balkar, Kumyk, Karaim, Krymchak, and the extinct Cuman and Kipchak languages. Urum and Crimean Tatar appear to have a Kypchak-Cuman base, but have been heavily influenced by Oghuz languages.

Kazakh-Nogay, including Kazakh, Karakalpak, and Nogay
The Uzbek language's Kypchak dialect contains the remainder of Kypchak languages that were once spoken in Uzbekistan, and there is a dialect continuum between Uzbek and Kazakh.

The language of the Mamluks in Egypt appears to have been a Kypchak language, probably one belonging to the Kazakh-Nogay group.


The modern Northwestern branch of the Turkic languages is often referred to as the Kipchak branch. The languages in this branch are mostly considered to be descendants of the Kipchak language, and the people who speak them may likewise be referred to as Kipchak peoples. Some of the groups traditionally included are the Siberian Tatars, Kumyks, Nogays, Bashkirs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Tatars and Crimean Tatars.

There is also a village named 'Kipchak' in Crimea.

Cuman (also Kuman) was a Kipchak Turkic language spoken by the Kipchaks, also known in the Greek annals as Cumans, in the west as Kumans, undiscriminative Polovetses in the Slavic and Rus annals, and Kuns in the Hungarian annals, the language was similar to the today's Crimean Tatar language. The Kipchak language is documented in medieval works, including the Codex Cumanicus, and it was a literary language in the Central and Eastern Europe that left a rich literary inheritance.

[MikeNice808]

Well I need Kievian researcher but it should be somebody who can read Cyrilic. So if you can then that would be great In such case you could also scan Russian/Ukrainian sources for info related with factions that land of which used to be or is now under ZSRR/Russia/Ukraine control, so Pecheneg, Qumans, Volga Bulgaria, Bashkirs, Great Perm, Taiga, Qipchaks, Kyrgyz, Kimek etc. BTW I have have looked at your profile and wonder - are you from Poland?

No sorry I can only read English. But why would you need me to read Cyrilic? I have internet access and can do research from my computer. In any way I can help out I will. And as my symbol says-I am Ukrainian. I live in a town called Garfield(which I call G-town). There are alot of Polish there so I call my city lil Poland. We are right near New York City. I love Polish delis and Polish women. My dad calls me the son of Tarus Bulba...

[Zames]

Great project, +rep for you!

[tibu17]

Hm bro thats are to be good works,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Silesian_Noble]

During the 10th century the Kipchaks became independent within the Kaganate (if they were ever dependent in the first place), and began migrating westward.

I think it rather happened in first half of XIc. We know that in 985y Oghuz together with Kievians attacked Volga-Bulgaria, that means there were no Qumans/Qipchaks between Aral and Caspian Seas steppes in that time.

The zenith of Kimak power came under the Ilburi rulers near the end of the 12th century. In 1183, the Kimaks attacked Volga Bulgaria, and they twice sacked Khwarezm, in the 1152 and 1197.

How Kimek could have its power zenith near the end of the 12th century, while we know they collapsed around half XI and later became dominated by Qipchaks? Of course it was Qipchak khanate that invaded Khwarezm in XIIc, not Kimek.

Kimek Khaganate was in 1050 AD ended after then became the Kipchaks in a Confederation.

The events were like that:
1041 - Yabgu of Oghuz conquered Shahdom of Khwarezm.
1043 - Seljuks drove Oghuz from Khwarezm
half XIc - Qipchaks invaded lower Syr-Darya region, defeated weakened Yabgu of Oghuz (which earlier were crushed by Seljuks in Khwarezm) which became their vassals
With the latter event Qipchaks became very powerful and from now on the Kimaks became subjects to them.

P.S. Boztorgai - the first and third spoiler include the same info, some other sections are also repeated - please remove redundant ones.

[Boztorgai_Khan]

I think it rather happened in first half of XIc. We know that in 985y Oghuz together with Kievians attacked Volga-Bulgaria, that means there were no Qumans/Qipchaks between Aral and Caspian Seas steppes in that time.


How Kimek could have its power zenith near the end of the 12th century, while we know they collapsed around half XI and later became dominated by Qipchaks? Of course it was Qipchak khanate that invaded Khwarezm in XIIc, not Kimek.


The events were like that:
1041 - Yabgu of Oghuz conquered Shahdom of Khwarezm.
1043 - Seljuks drove Oghuz from Khwarezm
half XIc - Qipchaks invaded lower Syr-Darya region, defeated weakened Yabgu of Oghuz (which earlier were crushed by Seljuks in Khwarezm) which became their vassals
With the latter event Qipchaks became very powerful and from now on the Kimaks became subjects to them.

P.S. Boztorgai - the first and third spoiler include the same info, some other sections are also repeated - please remove redundant ones.

I Did it

I'am busy with find the Banners for the Factions.

About banners(flag,coa) for Qumans, Qipchaqs and Kimäks

Qumans are Qipchaqs ( Qipchaqs are Qumans ) they are same. For Leader family tree can I make what but for Banner(flag,coa) is problem for me. Because for all two then must we use the Wolf head Tug maybe added for this two factions then with one backside blue other light blue colours. here upload i 2 pictures look like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

for Kimäks is then make a snake with 7-heads. What think you about this ?

Kimäks: The Imak (Yemak, Kimak) tribe became the head of the union, and later of the Kimak Kaganate. In another transcription the tribal name sounds like "Kai", which in Mongolian means "snake". Possibly during the consolidation of the seven tribes appeared the expression: "A snake has seven heads".




Pechenegs use the Tamga:


What think you is it possible to make what with this ???

[Silesian_Noble]

The first picture of 7heads snake looks very interesting - do you know where is it from? I think it would be good choice for Kimek CoA. Same for wolf head as CoA of two kin factions of Qumans and Qipchaks.

About the Tamga of Pecheneg - it looks very modest, I'm not sure whether this symbol is the best choice for Pecheneg CoA. I think we should investigate what CoA got Pecheneg in other mods, like Rus2 or TGC.

And about claim that Qumans and Qipchaks are the same, I can compare them to Saxons and Bavarians - some may say they are the same - Germans, but in fact they were different tribes with distinct traditions.

I have recently started work on map heights, I hope I will be soon ready to show you some screenshots of the map progress.