A Solution for the Communist vs Republic Dilemma (Revoloutions etc)

[VltimaRatio]

Seeing how I can't see a suggestion thread, here goes:

There has been some argument about whether the revolution in Russia should lead to a communist faction or not. This is undeniably quite important for a realistic campaign. But it doesn't have to be one or the other. The Soviet faction can use another faction altogether as a template, like Tuscany or something. This faction can be playable in custom battle (so that battles can be staged against the normal Russian faction, wouldn't be possible if they were the 'same').

But more importantly, on the campaign map the startpos can be modified so that this faction emerges in certain Russian regions (Ingria for example, for historical accuracy. The army that spawns can be edited I believe, and it can be set to be rather strong so that you get a serious civil war going) while other regions such as Little Tartary and Kiev spawn Ukrainian separtists (using the Crimean Khanate as a template). Revolutions in the capital regions give you a garden-variety republican government as it currently is. This Tuscan-Soviet faction can use the government type Empire as all the others can easily be Republic, ConMon or AbsMon. The government type relation modifier can be set to -100 for all the three others so that they won't be allying with the AI.

This I am pretty sure is fully doable modding-wise, relatively balanced and historically accurate (as the communist takeover was not at all directly after the fall of the Tsar).

Now, I'm not the one doing this part of the modding, but what do you think?

EDIT/ Apparently you're ahead of me on making the faction separate. But the startpos thing?

[RO Citizen]

Yes, sure, your idea is good, but until a certain point. Let's say the player wants to play with the Commies

[VltimaRatio]

True... We could always do what Total Factions does, and make an alternate "late" startpos with emergents in the game. Say, starting in the summer of 1917 rather than 1914. In that one the reds could have taken Petrograd and Novgorod and maybe some others, there were some insurrections in Germany as well. Wouldn't be all that balanced though considering the great powers and the ongoing war.

[King Sama]

Well, I am a proponent of a seperate civil war faction emerging from a semi-scripted revolution, but only for the ai, whereas a player (and perhaps ai) simply recieves large happiness penalties it has to deal with.

Also, the empire-communism idea would technically work, but then no other faction could become socialist/communist, and I've always thought of this as an interesting addition. Of course, as a last resort usng the empire government type may be necesary.

[VltimaRatio]

Maybe the revolution cycle can be changed so that other factions can become "empires" as well.

[King Sama]

No, since we have only 3 classes that correspond to 3 revolutions that correspond to 3 government types

[jorkka]

I have an idea that would solve this case and even more. Considering that there is already WWII-submod being made them it might be possible with some effort to make a 1918 submod. It could simulate the last desperate offensives launched by collapsing German and Austro-Hungarian empires, entry of the US (in some way), the emergence of myriads of new countries in the east and the gigantic russian civil war. The only issue on this submod would be creation of the startpos, as units and technologies would be similar to main TGW.
If anyone with modding skills gets interested in that kind of project, then I would gladly help on giving ideas and information. Sadly I myself lack the skills required.

[RO Citizen]

Why submods and not part of the mods?

Maybe after startpos v2, Mitch could work further into developing 1916 and 1918 startposes, like in LME.

[King Sama]

Why submods and not part of the mods?

Maybe after startpos v2, Mitch could work further into developing 1916 and 1918 startposes, like in LME.

Honestly, I would rather have the italy/egypt/spain campaigns than late-era campaigns, at least for now. But its up to Mitch.

[jorkka]

Ye'r right, alternative startpos could do as well. The point is, that many people would die to play from 1918 onwards, as it would provide so much different setting on the very same playground. After all, WWI remains as the war that has had the biggest impact on political map ever fought in Europe.

[oberst_ag]

Ye'r right, alternative startpos could do as well. The point is, that many people would die to play from 1918 onwards, as it would provide so much different setting on the very same playground. After all, WWI remains as the war that has had the biggest impact on political map ever fought in Europe.

yes cause half Europe communist dont do that

[Nyxos]

yes cause half Europe communist dont do that

You're taking about WW2 right ?

If so, I agree with you but we must keep in mind that WW2 is a direct consequence of WW1.

[oberst_ag]

everything is a consequence of everything my friend butt where will you drawn the line ?

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

Seeing how I can't see a suggestion thread, here goes:

There has been some argument about whether the revolution in Russia should lead to a communist faction or not. This is undeniably quite important for a realistic campaign. But it doesn't have to be one or the other. The Soviet faction can use another faction altogether as a template, like Tuscany or something. This faction can be playable in custom battle (so that battles can be staged against the normal Russian faction, wouldn't be possible if they were the 'same').

But more importantly, on the campaign map the startpos can be modified so that this faction emerges in certain Russian regions (Ingria for example, for historical accuracy. The army that spawns can be edited I believe, and it can be set to be rather strong so that you get a serious civil war going) while other regions such as Little Tartary and Kiev spawn Ukrainian separtists (using the Crimean Khanate as a template). Revolutions in the capital regions give you a garden-variety republican government as it currently is. This Tuscan-Soviet faction can use the government type Empire as all the others can easily be Republic, ConMon or AbsMon. The government type relation modifier can be set to -100 for all the three others so that they won't be allying with the AI.

This I am pretty sure is fully doable modding-wise, relatively balanced and historically accurate (as the communist takeover was not at all directly after the fall of the Tsar).

Now, I'm not the one doing this part of the modding, but what do you think?

EDIT/ Apparently you're ahead of me on making the faction separate. But the startpos thing?

The U.S.S.R was a Republic...at first a Democratic one, and then an Illiberal One.

[JeremyLithium]

@bandiera rossa if so, then you could make the democracy relation lower, making all republics hated, including france. Remember that by 1914, and still today, France is the country of revolutions by excellence. it could work, though I don't see how britain and italy will remain allied to the french if they are hated. I dont think that made a lot of sense, but basically, if france had allies who despised her, why would they remain her allies?

[Cae]

Though not how the country was governed, it would be a better representation in game to have the Soviets a republic (Monarchies fight with, poor people adore.)

['Gunny]

Perhaps Empire could be renamed if you will to Third Republic, and only France has it?

[King Sama]

Perhaps Empire could be renamed if you will to Third Republic, and only France has it?

That would be a bit of a waste, don't you think? I prefer to have empire become Absolute monarchy or such, something that a revolution wouldn't cause anyway. Imperial Russia would have it, and any other state that still had such a government. Of course, thats not set in stone, just what I had in mind.