An open time capsule for the world, for whenever Israel and the Palestinians sort things out

[♔Goodguy1066♔]

I have taken the liberty of showing (very) rough maps of what the final agreement between the Palestinians and Israel over the soverignity of East Jerusalem will be.

Israel will drop the united Jerusalem policy, after realising that the number of Arabs hostile to Israeli rule in many parts of the city is ovewhelming and must be given to the PA, the PA would have gotten so exasperated about the negotiations over Jerusalem they'd concede very large parts of East Jerusalem (but would not, even under very intense pressure from Israel, give up on the Muslim quarter and the Temple Mount) for the sake of stablilty and peace. The Jewish neighbourhoods have grown so in a way that the area between the former Israeli exclave of Mount Scopus and the rest of Western Jerusalem is very Jewish, and a new exclave will be created for the largest Jewish neighbourhood area in East Jerusalem: Neve-Ya'akov - Pisgat-Ze'ev. As benefitial to Israel as the outcome seems seems, many Jewish neighbourhoods will be cleared and handed over to the Palestinian state, because they have agreed that unless absolutely necessary enclaves and exclaves must be avoided.
As for the Old City, as stated above the Palestinians will be given full jurasdiction of the Muslim Quarter, which will cause outrage through the religious Jewish community but not enough to cause a crisis. The Christian quarter will hold a referendum on whether to join the more liberal and modern Israel, or the more Christian-populated Palestine that includes Betlehem. The Armenian quarter will, quite unsurprisingly, choose to stay in Israel; not as many Armenians live there anymore anyway, and the Armenian community generally leans towards Israel.

That's as much as I'm willing to say. This thread will serve as an "I told you so" time capsule for the future. Here are my crude maps:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The future border of divided Jerusalem (East = to Palestine, West+Neve-Ya'akov - Pisgat-Ze'ev exclave = to Israel)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Close up on the Old City/City of David. Christian quarter to have referendum.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

BBC map of Jerusalem from 2006-ish, for comparison:

While many of the Jewish neighbourhoods will be incorporated into Israel proper, many more will be evacuated and handed over to Palestinian rule.

Comments are welcome, mods may move this thread if this isn't the right place.

[Surgeon]

So... is this a plan proposed by Israel and the PA or a speculative prediction?

[eran]

Do you think that the referendum law about giving up on land will be an obstacle?

[ash874]

Do you think that the referendum law about giving up on land will be an obstacle?

are you not an israeli?

[Axeman]

After millions of years of evolution after the inevitable Zombie Apocalypse, will we even know what Israel / Palestine were?

[Dr. Oza]

My projection: (this is what the point of the thread is ?)

The Israelis and Palestinians will realize that due to the reality of the situation on the ground, they should unify into one state. Hardcore religious and zionist Israelis will oppose it as will Hardcore Palestinians, but the majority of the people will see the merits.

The new nation will protect the rights of all citizens regardless of religion. Voting rights will be allowed for all. The influx of Israelis capital and Palestinian labor as well as the growing number of high educated israelis and palestinians will lead to an economic boom that will make the middle east jealous. Movign beyond oppression, hate and racism, the new joint-nation will be the envy of multi-national regions throughout the globe.

Over time, cultural engineering by the new state will attempt to morph the israeli and palestinian identities into one. Terrorism and hate will be a thing of the past.

The new state will be called: The Palestian-Israeli Republic or PIR (Im sure there is a better name )

The flag will be a something like this: (sign on the building, but the crescent will be green )

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

-----

Now, why do i think this:

I believe that businesses and financial interests will favor this. I believe that the common israeli and palestinian will favor this. I believe that every year more and more hateful individuals die and more and more young people able to trust and love each other grow up (when israeli bombs you , this kind of works backwards)

Basically i believe that people will move beyond, "This is a Jewish homeland" (LOL) and "They took our land"

And realize that unless they live together, the killing will never stop.

[Rolling Thunder]

My projection: (this is what the point of the thread is ?)

The Israelis and Palestinians will realize that due to the reality of the situation on the ground, they should unify into one state. Hardcore religious and zionist Israelis will oppose it as will Hardcore Palestinians, but the majority of the people will see the merits.

The new nation will protect the rights of all citizens regardless of religion. Voting rights will be allowed for all. The influx of Israelis capital and Palestinian labor as well as the growing number of high educated israelis and palestinians will lead to an economic boom that will make the middle east jealous. Movign beyond oppression, hate and racism, the new joint-nation will be the envy of multi-national regions throughout the globe.

Over time, cultural engineering by the new state will attempt to morph the israeli and palestinian identities into one. Terrorism and hate will be a thing of the past.

The new state will be called: The Palestian-Israeli Republic or PIR (Im sure there is a better name )

The flag will be a something like this: (sign on the building, but the crescent will be green )

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

-----

Now, why do i think this:

I believe that businesses and financial interests will favor this. I believe that the common israeli and palestinian will favor this. I believe that every year more and more hateful individuals die and more and more young people able to trust and love each other grow up (when israeli bombs you , this kind of works backwards)

Basically i believe that people will move beyond, "This is a Jewish homeland" (LOL) and "They took our land"

And realize that unless they live together, the killing will never stop.

This is the most sensible suggestion.

[MaccabiFanatic]

My projection: (this is what the point of the thread is ?)

The Israelis and Palestinians will realize that due to the reality of the situation on the ground, they should unify into one state. Hardcore religious and zionist Israelis will oppose it as will Hardcore Palestinians, but the majority of the people will see the merits.

The new nation will protect the rights of all citizens regardless of religion. Voting rights will be allowed for all. The influx of Israelis capital and Palestinian labor as well as the growing number of high educated israelis and palestinians will lead to an economic boom that will make the middle east jealous. Movign beyond oppression, hate and racism, the new joint-nation will be the envy of multi-national regions throughout the globe.

Over time, cultural engineering by the new state will attempt to morph the israeli and palestinian identities into one. Terrorism and hate will be a thing of the past.

The new state will be called: The Palestian-Israeli Republic or PIR (Im sure there is a better name )

The flag will be a something like this: (sign on the building, but the crescent will be green )

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

-----

Now, why do i think this:

I believe that businesses and financial interests will favor this. I believe that the common israeli and palestinian will favor this. I believe that every year more and more hateful individuals die and more and more young people able to trust and love each other grow up (when israeli bombs you , this kind of works backwards)

Basically i believe that people will move beyond, "This is a Jewish homeland" (LOL) and "They took our land"

And realize that unless they live together, the killing will never stop.

the only problem is that we will never accept it...because it will mean the destruction of the jewish state in a matter of years...and eventually it will have an arab majority and a jewish minority...so were basicly shooting ourselfs in the heart

[Blaze86420]

Arab nationalism is still very much alive in Palestine, unity is out of the question.

[Dr. Oza]

Arab nationalism is still very much alive in Palestine, unity is out of the question.

Thats the way it seems to be. But if i was palestinian i would feel cheated out by just having west bank (whats left of it anyway) and Gaza. I would never be happy with an independent state. And the mistakes of zionist exclusion are too late to reverse. The only realistic and pragmatic solution (imo) seems to be unity.

[Ahlerich]

Thats the way it seems to be. But if i was palestinian i would feel cheated out by just having west bank (whats left of it anyway) and Gaza. I would never be happy with an independent state. And the mistakes of zionist exclusion are too late to reverse. The only realistic and pragmatic solution (imo) seems to be unity.

to much recent history, recent humiliation abuse and hatred. a state of 2 factions like that would need a tito or saddam to keep the state in one piece. in other words i think that mark is set to high.

[Sphere]

The end solution has been fairly obvious for decades now, its just that the political will on either side and the requisite 3rd party help needed have not all three coincided at the same time yet. Arafat perhaps had the trust and clout to deliver but didn't have the proper partner on the otherside. There was a brief window right when Kadima emerged, but Bush was distracted. Kadima remained in power but the PA split apart and has undercut Abbas' position at the table as he can no longer deliver Gaza. Now there is US energy behind the negiotations, but Bibi isn't interested because his coaliton would split, and Abbas is still hamstrung.

Another big obstacle is that the stepwise process of the Oslo accords has been abandoned, and both sides are convinced there will be only one large all inclusive deal and so are not willing to make any small concessions before hand as they see it as shrinking their own pile of bargaining chips.
And this is sad I think in many ways Oslo has born fruit. The West Bank under the PA is actually doing well, government and security structures have improved, there is largely peace and growing prosperity etc.

However that Fatah failed for many years post-Oslo to show any political progress towards a real state I think undercut their position and allowed Hamas to gain support. I think if another step wise Oslo like deal had been reached in the late Clinton/early Bush years we would be in far better place now, without Hamas in control of Gaza, and a real chance at a negotiated full-fledged Palestinian state that was peaceful and prosperous.

[Fionn son of Cumhaill]

You mean this map? http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011...-much-else-new

[♔Goodguy1066♔]

You mean this map? http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011...-much-else-new

No.

[Dolgorukiy]

So you're you're focusing exclusively on E. Jerusalem, or you will discuss the rest of the issues as well?

[Vince Noir]

I'm a middle class, privately educated in a famous school, christian raised, white boy from the countryside in the UK. And I would give my life for some kind of justice for Palestine and its people, namely the 67 borders (the actual borders). I obviously have no clear connection to the area, but after studying the facts profusely, there is no other logical and moral conclusion in the face of such injustice. And from further study of these facts, you need to understand, and I've been saying it for years; Israel do not want peace. It is not in their interest, capacity or possibly even vocabulary.

I'm not going to offend and call you brainwashed, even though you are conditioned from an early age with much anti Arab sentiment in your country, but I think the last person to have any sort of valid opinion on who gets what and why, is an Israeli.

[MaccabiFanatic]

I'm a middle class, privately educated in a famous school, christian raised, white boy from the countryside in the UK. And I would give my life for some kind of justice for Palestine and its people, namely the 67 borders (the actual borders). I obviously have no clear connection to the area, but after studying the facts profusely, there is no other logical and moral conclusion in the face of such injustice. And from further study of these facts, you need to understand, and I've been saying it for years; Israel do not want peace. It is not in their interest, capacity or possibly even vocabulary.

I'm not going to offend and call you brainwashed, even though you are conditioned from an early age with much anti Arab sentiment in your country, but I think the last person to have any sort of valid opinion on who gets what and why, is an Israeli.

so...if we dont want peace...according to your "facts"
why did we give up the sinai desert FOR peace?
why did we give lands to jordan FOR peace?
why did we give some sort of control to the fatah over the west bank? weapons? oslo agreement? and so many other things.
i guess our of bordom of course.
before you try to solve our problems...maybe you should get your ass out of falkland islands,afganistan,iraq...mr white boy from britain...the biggest occupier of all times.
and NO, i do not think the current situation is good and i dont think the occupation is a good thing, but i do thing that what you are saying is wrong ...we do want peace,peace is our only goal in this. who doesnt want peace? who doesnt want to raise his children in a good enviorment? what you are saying is wrong..

--------------------

I think the ONLY solution will be this:

we will help creating a palestinian state in gaza and the west bank and some parts of east jerusalem.
the palestinians in israel will be given the OPTION to leave to the new palestinian state and we will give them alot of money to do so and they will have the possibility to work here but they wont be electing citizens (to make sure this country stays jewish)
if they dont wanna leave...then they will stay here,keep their citizenships but they will have to join the army like everybody else,pay taxes,follow our laws and rules and swear an oath to israel being a jewish state.
that way there will be 2 countries,1 for the jews with a palestinian minority,and another 1 for the palestinians.
that way no one will danger the other sides existence..not demographicly...or by war..and of course we will support them financly...military and so on..

[Vince Noir]

so...if we dont want peace...according to your "facts"
why did we give up the sinai desert FOR peace?
why did we give lands to jordan FOR peace?
why did we give some sort of control to the fatah over the west bank? weapons? oslo agreement? and so many other things.
i guess our of bordom of course.
before you try to solve our problems...maybe you should get your ass out of falkland islands,afganistan,iraq...mr white boy from britain...the biggest occupier of all times.
and NO, i do not think the current situation is good and i dont think the occupation is a good thing, but i do thing that what you are saying is wrong ...we do want peace,peace is our only goal in this. who doesnt want peace? who doesnt want to raise his children in a good enviorment? what you are saying is wrong..

You think that is a gesture of peace? Giving land back that you annexed after you invaded those countries? And land that which you subsequently occupy, illegally importing settlers from throughout the world in a attempt to colonize and create an Apartheid state, maintained by ruthless policies of murder, assassination, political subterfuge, black propaganda, humiliation and economic repression and despair?

HAVE YOU EVEN BEEN READING THE NEWS AT THE MOMENT??????????

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...-peace-partner

Your lack of knowledge concerning your nation's history is disturbing...

[MaccabiFanatic]

You think that is a gesture of peace? Giving land back that you annexed after you invaded those countries? And land that which you subsequently occupy, illegally importing settlers from throughout the world in a attempt to colonize and create an Apartheid state, maintained by ruthless policies of murder, assassination, political subterfuge, black propaganda, humiliation and economic repression and despair?

HAVE YOU EVEN BEEN READING THE NEWS AT THE MOMENT??????????

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...-peace-partner

Your lack of knowledge concerning your nation's history is disturbing...

wow...
i dont even know where to begin
we annexed that land after we were attacked,we annexed it after there were plans to attack us!
you talk of history yet you show only one side of the coin while not mentioning the other! there is a reason for everything and that is something you must understand.
aparthaid state,lmfao. i dont read the news? i dont need the news, i live here, this is my home, i dont need a silly articel to tell me that this is not an aprtheid state. you talk of propganda? your post certnely shows me that you are full of propganda.where should i start? ben gurions qoutes?apartheid state?
you wanna teach me MY history?with your twisted ben gurion qoutes? give me a break,your comments are a joke

[Fionn son of Cumhaill]

I'm a middle class, privately educated in a famous school, christian raised, white boy from the countryside in the UK. And I would give my life for some kind of justice for Palestine and its people, namely the 67 borders (the actual borders). I obviously have no clear connection to the area, but after studying the facts profusely, there is no other logical and moral conclusion in the face of such injustice. And from further study of these facts, you need to understand, and I've been saying it for years; Israel do not want peace. It is not in their interest, capacity or possibly even vocabulary.

I'm not going to offend and call you brainwashed, even though you are conditioned from an early age with much anti Arab sentiment in your country, but I think the last person to have any sort of valid opinion on who gets what and why, is an Israeli.

A man after my own heart if ever there was one!