OT: Character you Love to Hate **SPOILERS**

[The_Kingslayer]

Everyone has their favorite characters in the books. They're easy to pick out (and just as easy to debate). But personally, I think it's more fun to debate the characters that we love to hate. I'm looking for more than, "Well, Bran, because his chapters are boring." I want to know who it is that really makes your blood boil, which I think is a great discussion because so many characters are really and truly gray.

For my own part...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I cannot stand Cersei Lannister. I say this, knowing the support I gave the Lannisters with my vote in the favorite house discussion, but the Queen just irks me so damned much. Part of it, I think, is because she thinks she's so much better at the game than she actually is. Her scheming takes out Ned Stark, then creates a number of situations up to and during the Battle of Kings Landing. Then, her madness continues to tear her apart. I think it is because she is so ineffective as a leader that I can't stand her; if someone more able had been in that position, perhaps House Lannister 'wins' without as much trauma and as many problems.

[Jaime Goldenhand]

Here Here I wholly agree with you kingslayer.
You said it all and I just want to add my favorite example of cerseis stupidity
After giving the faith their army back she says something along the lines of If father could see me now, I have solved the problem of the sparrows and gotten rid of a substantial part of the crowns debt, maybe he would think twice about having me marry again.
She was soooo stupid not to recognize that this was going to bite her in the ass. Religious zealots are called zealots for a reason

[History_Buff]

Here Here I wholly agree with you kingslayer.
You said it all and I just want to add my favorite example of cerseis stupidity
After giving the faith their army back she says something along the lines of If father could see me now, I have solved the problem of the sparrows and gotten rid of a substantial part of the crowns debt, maybe he would think twice about having me marry again.
She was soooo stupid not to recognize that this was going to bite her in the ass. Religious zealots are called zealots for a reason

I agree with this completely and with the sentiment that Cersei becomes more and more insane. She is obsessed with the prophecy that was given and her obsession with getting Tyrion causes her to see enemies in her soup. One of the characters said that it was like she saw "Dwarves coming out of the walls" or something along those lines. She is obsessed with obtaining power and has a MAJOR chip on her shoulder about showing that a woman can be a good ruler, while she is actually proving an example to the contrary. She wants power badly but is actually very bad and utilizing it.

However my least favorite characters are a tye between Peytr Baelish and Stannis Baratheon for two different reasons. I will start with Peytr Baelish. I think he is too clever by half, always knows more then he lets on and is incredibly manipulative. I also think that he would sell his own mother down the river if it would further his ambitions. It is as if he has no morals whatsoever.

Stannis I hate for the opposite reason. He takes his sense of justice too far. I believe he has his sword rammed so far up his ass so that he cannot bend without cutting himself on his sense of justice. I swear, when he talks, it tries to come out his mouth. He thinks that because he is the rightful heir that no matter what he does or what he asks the people to do they will simply praise him and welcome him for the sole reason that he is the rightful heir. He attaches no importance to religion and underestimates the amount of importance it has to the common people. That causes him to alienate the people by converting to a religion almost none of them follow. The funny part is he STILL expects them to welcome him even though he is asking them to abandon the faith they have practiced for generations. I believe his sense of justice and that he expects everyone else to have an equally strong sense of justice made him especially vulnerable to Melisandre. He also lets his sense of justice blind him to reality. He does not realize that thing's like religion and other forms of self interest matter more to the people then do who has the better claim to the throne and also expects them to buy the story about his claim to the throne without proof simply because it is true. How are they to know it is true, because he says it is?

[The Despondent Mind]

However my least favorite characters are a tye between Peytr Baelish and Stannis Baratheon for two different reasons. I will start with Peytr Baelish. I think he is too clever by half, always knows more then he lets on and is incredibly manipulative. I also think that he would sell his own mother down the river if it would further his ambitions. It is as if he has no morals whatsoever.

That's why i Like him

Stannis I hate for the opposite reason. He takes his sense of justice too far. I believe he has his sword rammed so far up his ass so that he cannot bend without cutting himself on his sense of justice. I swear, when he talks, it tries to come out his mouth. He thinks that because he is the rightful heir that no matter what he does or what he asks the people to do they will simply praise him and welcome him for the sole reason that he is the rightful heir. He attaches no importance to religion and underestimates the amount of importance it has to the common people. That causes him to alienate the people by converting to a religion almost none of them follow. The funny part is he STILL expects them to welcome him even though he is asking them to abandon the faith they have practiced for generations. I believe his sense of justice and that he expects everyone else to have an equally strong sense of justice made him especially vulnerable to Melisandre. He also lets his sense of justice blind him to reality. He does not realize that thing's like religion and other forms of self interest matter more to the people then do who has the better claim to the throne and also expects them to buy the story about his claim to the throne without proof simply because it is true. How are they to know it is true, because he says it is?

I completely agree.

I hate Samwell Tarly, he's so fat and anoying and fat.

[Sanguinary Guardian]

Daenerys. For various reasons, plot armour being one of them.

[Gurkhal]

I actually love Stannis for more or less the reasons listed that people hate him and I'm kind of symphatic to Cersei who I would more consider short-sighted, overconfident and deranged, rather than stupied. To me it seems that most of the things she does isn't without merit in themselves, but she fails to connected them to the big picture and most importantly she fails to think and plan in the long run, and she constantly underestimate other people. She always, for some obscene reason, excepts everything to fall out as she planned it without almost any basis for her prediction rather than wishful thinking.

The ones I really, really hate, and not just dislike from time to time, is Samwell, Bran and Euron. I wouldn't mind Samwell unless I was in his brain and was constantly hearing his whinning and his absolute resistance to improve himself in any way. He don't need to turn into a womanizing super-hero with a six pack. But he can stop complaining and whinning. I hate him, I pity the poor (stupied!) girl Gilly and hope he dies before he can pester the world with offspring.

Bran I hate because he's so go damn boring. I may change my mind but I can't for once care one bit about him and his little friends' adventure out in the big forest.

Euron I hate because he's an immoral and nihilist. I mean, is there any limit to his general sadism and perversion? Is there any kind of "thieves' honor" in him? Cersei tries to protect her children, which I find symphatic, for once but Euron is really just a scumbag in a way that defies both the heaven and earth. Goddamn I hate him and his utter arrogant scumbagginess. I really hope he dies a long and painful death... I feel the same about Lord Goat, Amory Lorch and Gregor Clegane, but not as strongly, except for the Brave Companions.

[Jaime Goldenhand]

@History Buff: I love Littlefinger for all the reasons you stated

All you samwell haters out there: I know he is a coward and can be stupid sometimes but "because he is so fat" is a terrible reason.

Bran: I like to think that the boring chapters we have so far will be balanced out by awesome chapters where, as I commented on in my predictions for later books, he will learn magic and maybe meet the children of the forest and come back with TREEEEE LEEEEEEGS!!!!!!

[The_Kingslayer]

I don't hate Littlefinger.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

To put it another way, he's everything I want in a manipulative b-stard. He plays the game perfectly (or near enough as matters) and has the best grasp of the 'whole picture' of anyone in Westeros, perhaps minus Varys. He's a great vehicle for Sansa's development and may be the most intelligent person in the series. To put it another way, he's too good at being bad for me to hate him. Like Christopher Lee in "The Man with the Golden Gun," the only serviceable Roger Moore 007 flick. Or, Triple H in the WWE, who was too good at being a bad guy, got too many fans and had to only play to the white-hat side.

[Sanguinary Guardian]

The reasons you stated above are why I LOVE to read about Euron...He is one of the few really evil characters (You also named the others), but still he is the only one who is evil with style...

[surprisebutts4ks]

The reasons you stated above are why I LOVE to read about Euron...He is one of the few really evil characters (You also named the others), but still he is the only one who is evil with style...

What my fellow greek said. If you gotta be total evil, make sure you do it in style.

And Samwell Tarly gets on my nerves. I don't realy hate him, but he should really lay off the pies.
At least Robert was that rare type of scary fat people. You know, the huge ones that swing even larger warhammers at you.

[History_Buff]

I personally liked Robert Baratheon, he just should not have been king. Personally, he is a great, dynamic character. He is honorable and does not go to the extreme of Eddard and he is a strong warrior. As a King, however, he is terrible. He is not suited to the job of running the kingdom and he knows it. He tells Eddard that Eddard or John should have been king instead of him. The fact that he knows his own limitations also is a good plus to him. Of course, that begs the question why he did not refuse the crown in favor of one of them in the first place.

[mookao165]

because its a crown...

[History_Buff]

because its a crown...

true, and hindsight is 20/20 vision.

[Heart of Madness]

To put it plain and simple: Cersei.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

BTW, we don't need to use spoiler warnings in this thread because it tells in the title.

[Gurkhal]

I should probably add that I perhaps hate Littlefinger even more than, well the possible exception of Euron. For reasons already listed.

[Jaime Goldenhand]

Justification for the existence of littlefinger: He kills Lysa the end

[The_Kingslayer]

I should probably add that I perhaps hate Littlefinger even more than, well the possible exception of Euron. For reasons already listed.

See, as a reader, I have difficulty hating Euron to that level because I don't have any investment in Victarion Greyjoy. Don't get me wrong, Euron is portrayed as one of the few true Black Hats in the course of the series. But he doesn't try to have Tyrion killed and betray her brother and incestuous lover. He doesn't scheme himself into being Lord Paramount of the Trident, marry the Lady of the Vale and then murder her.

There's a thought.

I can't stand Lysa Arryn. Part of why I can't hate Littlefinger is because he killed her. It's just... so many mistakes... not the least of which was murdering Jon Arryn. She has the same excuses that Cersei does about her terrible choices to protect her son... just... ya know... is way less successful (which is saying something).

[History_Buff]

See, as a reader, I have difficulty hating Euron to that level because I don't have any investment in Victarion Greyjoy. Don't get me wrong, Euron is portrayed as one of the few true Black Hats in the course of the series. But he doesn't try to have Tyrion killed and betray her brother and incestuous lover. He doesn't scheme himself into being Lord Paramount of the Trident, marry the Lady of the Vale and then murder her

There's a thought..

You have a very good point. I agree with Gurkhal however in the fact that I do hate Euron. However, I do think that Euron is not nearly as dangerous as Littlefinger as I believe he thinks he is smarter then he is and all of his brothers know how he really is. That will be his downfall. Euron is just a straight forward brute and psychopath in my opinion and I believe that his plans will ultimately be foiled by either Victarion, Asha, or Damphair or all of the above.

The amazing thing about Littlefinger is that EVERYONE underestimates him. no one actually realizes how much of a threat he is or how manipulative he is. They all assume since he has so little land and so few men sworn to him, that he could not possibly be a threat to anyone and they are, in a sense, right in that regard. If anyone important actually decided to move against him, he would be done for, as almost happened with the Lord's Declarant crisis. It was only his wit and careful planning that saved him, and relying on Lyn Corbray strikes me as a gamble. However, that incident shows that he is more then capable of defending himself with his wits and getting his enemies to fight amongst themselves to compensate for the lack of strength he himself commands. He knows what his weakness is and therefore is very careful to ensure that things do not come to violence, in which case, he would lose. The other amazing thing is how despite constant betrayals, PEOPLE STILL TRUST HIM. You would think that his betrayal of Eddard might make people think "If he did it to Eddard, what is to stop him from doing it to me". I agree he is one of the most intelligent characters in the entire series, the only one who is probably as smart if not smarter is Tyrion, another one who people underestimate constantly (and one of my personal favorite characters).

I can't stand Lysa Arryn. Part of why I can't hate Littlefinger is because he killed her. It's just... so many mistakes... not the least of which was murdering Jon Arryn. She has the same excuses that Cersei does about her terrible choices to protect her son... just... ya know... is way less successful (which is saying something).

I also hate Lysa Arryn if for no better reason then I think she is completely insane. We are talking about a person who felt threatened by and almost threw a teenage girl out a window to her death. She is paranoid and she makes mistakes because of that paranoia. She truly believes that if she just minds her own business, everyone else will forget about her, which is the pinacle of naivete in my opinion.

I also do not like Cersei because while she is great at politcal intrigue, she is not good at actually using the power that she gains for herself. She lets herself be manipulated too easily because Littlefinger, Varys, and others feed into what she wants to believe. The only evidence she had that the Tyrells were responsible for helping Tyrion escape was a coin that came from the Reach and that Olena Tyrell was known for carrying such coins. She did not look into it further and she had no way of knowing it came from Olena. All her evidence was circumstantial. Not to mention anyone could have planted that coin, even though I think all the readers know who did plant it. She DEFINITELY thinks she is smarter then she actually is. I also hate how vicious she is. This is the women who said that Catlyn Stark should have smothered Jon Snow in his crib as a baby. It is not normal to think like that, and it almost sounds insane. After that, she slowly begins to seem as if she might slowly be going insane as the obsession with the prophecy she was given slowly starts to drive her mad.

[The_Kingslayer]

Another point against Lysa Arryn (to the intrigues, if not the series) is that she is the Helen of Troy of this story. Sure, it's Littlefinger's influence that puts her over the edge, but she poisons Jon Arryn, which sets everything else into action.

[Murfmurf]

I actually don't hate any characters

Yes, some completely drive me up the wall, but that's good characterisation. I think it has to be said that GRRM is a fantastic writer if he has written characters of such completexity and individuality that we make a thread on a website and all about them!

+rep to George.