High taxes vs Low taxes

[paperhero]

Has anyone figured out to get the most money out of a city once it has built it's 2nd level stone wall (in the long term)? I keep my taxes low to quickly be able to build all buildings. Once I have achieved this I want to maximize the money I can get from it. If I now increase the taxes it pays I lose population which in turn reduces the amount of money I receive because of a smaller population. So which gives me the most money in the long term?

The same question could be asked about keeping a general in the city. Generally a general will increase population, but at the same time brings down the amount of money you receive in that city by the hundreds. So do you keep him in the city or not to maximize the money you get from that city? Again in the long term.

[Vifarc]

I try to always have one general in each city.
First in the smallest cities to help them growing, then in front one for defense.
I have rarely more than one (max.3) general in each army, and I have rarely more than one army (max.3 too), as I play Silvans and armies in the field have expensive outcome.

[blade1]

ok u seem lik u understand things i wana install tatw so i hve 2 install tatw 1 and patches and stuff or i can go and just install 2.0 and 2.1?? help me plz

[blade1]

ok u seem lik u understand things i wana install tatw so i hve 2 install tatw 1 and patches and stuff or i can go and just install 2.0 and 2.1?? help me plz

[Hartassen]

I usually play like this:
village low taxes
town normal
large town high
city very high

You can also micromanage each city so that right before it builds something you turn it to high or very high if you have an administrator there so that he gets the taxman trait for increased income.

[xian]

You can also micromanage each city so that right before it builds something you turn it to high or very high if you have an administrator there so that he gets the taxman trait for increased income.

High taxes when the building finishes or when I order and pay for it?


// ah nevermind. Should have kept reading.

[Hartassen]

High taxes when the building finishes or when I order and pay for it?


// ah nevermind. Should have kept reading.

Yes, 1 turn before it builds. I should also have mentioned that very high is better than high to get the trait unless very high puts you in the red. The trait is given at yellow or blue order happiness, blue offering a higher chance if I am not mistaken.

[Ngugi]

Yes, 1 turn before it builds. I should also have mentioned that very high is better than high to get the trait unless very high puts you in the red. The trait is given at yellow or blue order happiness, blue offering a higher chance if I am not mistaken.

Haha, keep 'em peasants on the short leash!
After that any medieval lord can go home, feeling he learnt something!

[Hartassen]

Haha, keep 'em peasants on the short leash!
After that any medieval lord can go home, feeling he learnt something!

When I play Eriador I put every town at low from the very start. By turn 12 you'll be making more money than anyone else anyway.

[jinjo]

in the long run, it's better to have lower taxes
yes, it's opportunity cost but for me tomorrow's chicken is better than today's egg (of course it depends on factions)
in case of general, try to have governors in the city and good stat generals in the battle, general upkeep is much lower than the cost to be in the city

[Lordinquisitor]

If you finish a building while the taxes are not high or very_high you risk getting bad traits. Thus you should always raise the taxes at least to high before finishing a building.

While it is true that low taxes are better in the long run you have to realise that some backwater cities will only able to grow after many, many turns with low taxes. It`s in my opinion the best course of action to have low taxes in important cities that are able to grow within a few turns while backwater towns might be neglected. You only need a few towns which can produce the best units; The others should supply those with money.

[Kawee]

I actually go for normal tax most of the time. I need the money, and low tax only gets me +0.5% pop growth. In the small villages, go with low tax since any higher gets you a double digit increase in tax at most, so you want the pop to grow as fast as possible so that the place can actually be of some use. In the bigger cities, we're talking hundreds of gold, so I go with normal. Once it hits Huge or Large City, I go with high and highest tax just because the pop growth won't lead to any further advancements anyway, and increased tax more than makes up for the fall in pop.

[betto]

i think that bad taxman need to give something good in exchange like more 1 of respect per level or 1 less of squalor... this solve the dilema

[cahaya]

As a general rule, I'll keep the tax settings as low as possible, either on low or normal settings, so that settlement/city sizes increase more rapidly. There is a huge jump (-1.0% instead of -0.5%) in going from normal to high taxes. Now, 0.5% difference between low and normal taxes doesn't sound like much, but it's like compound interest in multiplying over a series of turns. Assuming 0% growth at very high, 0.5% at high, 1.5% at normal and 2.0% at low tax rates, here are the results for 1, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 and 100 turns. It turns out that even 0.5% difference can make a huge difference over a period of 100 turns.

Tax Turns 1 10 20 30 40 50 100
Very High 1.000 1.000 1.000 1.000 1.000 1.000 1.000
High 1.005 1.051 1.105 1.161 1.221 1.283 1.647
Normal 1.015 1.161 1.347 1.563 1.814 2.105 4.432
Low 1.020 1.219 1.486 1.811 2.208 2.692 7.245

Keep in mind that the larger settlements (in addition to increased taxes collected due to larger population size), once they reach the threshhold to the next settlement size, provide new options to build yet larger economic structures, which in turn generate more income.

Also, the percentage differences in these exponential growth percentage difference (almost double between low and normal over 100 turns) far exceeds the linear percentage difference in taxes collected (say, for example, about 10% if 500 income is generated at low and 550 at normal). So, it's clear that a low tax growth strategy will generate far more income over the long term.

The only reason I'll use normal instead of low taxes is out of necessity, with priority on building key economic structures (roads, farms, markets, ports) and key recruiting locales, while maintaining as small an army as possible to achieve strategic objectives. Sometimes you'll need the extra cash for several turns (or even longer if you're in midst of a costly campaign) and this is when I will switch it up to 'normal' instead of 'low'. High or very high taxes should be limited to when you're required to take desperate measures to raise cash, and/or if the settlement has already reached its maximum size.

[Hartassen]

The only reason I'll use normal instead of low taxes is out of necessity, with priority on building key economic structures (roads, farms, markets, ports) and key recruiting locales, while maintaining as small an army as possible to achieve strategic objectives. Sometimes you'll need the extra cash for several turns (or even longer if you're in midst of a costly campaign) and this is when I will switch it up to 'normal' instead of 'low'. High or very high taxes should be limited to when you're required to take desperate measures to raise cash, and/or if the settlement has already reached its maximum size.

You sound like me. I never build culture buildings or brothels or leather tanners early on unless I wade in cash or really need it for something. Low taxes + farms, roads, markets and town guards(sometimes bowyers if I have archers I'd need to retrain), etc are priority targets in every settlement. Economy first with low tier units and small army sizes with strategic thinking is key to starting off a campaign in a good spot. Free upkeep units in basically every settlement with basically 1-2 half stacks depending on faction as defense, of course you have to adjust according to threat level sometimes but usually I end up deleting units I don't need or units you start with that you can't build for 50 turns I just use them to capture settlements then disband them.

[cahaya]

You sound like me. I never build culture buildings or brothels or leather tanners early on unless I wade in cash or really need it for something.

Agreed, if the culture isn't required, then it's a waste to build it. Most of the initial settlements (and some rebel settlements nearby) will already have the level of culture you need.

It's a little different if you're campaigning and capturing enemy settlements of a different culture. Cultural buildings become a lot more important to build, although, depending on the size of the settlement, again you can make do with the 2-turn and possibly the 3-turn cultural buildings. One reason these are economically important is garrision cost. It takes a number of turns for a newly captured settlement to be able to provide for a free garrison (typically a low-level infantry unit) -- until then, you are paying the unit maintenance cost each and every turn, so sooner the better, and the lower level culture buildings are fairly cheap compared to endlessly paying out garrison costs.

[Barsoom]

Culture buildings are also pretty good happiness raisers, hence growth promoters. The first level at least and in most places the second level too pay out, I think. Faster growth means higher tax incomes and less time before you can build the next tier of economic improvements.

[Hartassen]

Agreed, if the culture isn't required, then it's a waste to build it. Most of the initial settlements (and some rebel settlements nearby) will already have the level of culture you need.

It's a little different if you're campaigning and capturing enemy settlements of a different culture. Cultural buildings become a lot more important to build, although, depending on the size of the settlement, again you can make do with the 2-turn and possibly the 3-turn cultural buildings. One reason these are economically important is garrision cost. It takes a number of turns for a newly captured settlement to be able to provide for a free garrison (typically a low-level infantry unit) -- until then, you are paying the unit maintenance cost each and every turn, so sooner the better, and the lower level culture buildings are fairly cheap compared to endlessly paying out garrison costs.

Of course, If I capture an enemy town that cant support upkeep culture is the first thing I make. Culture buildings are also the highest priority when you have cash and leather tanner, culture and brothel are available. If I'm playing as eriador as well for instance culture buildings in annúminas are the most important after farm. I totally agree with free upkeep as well it's a lot of cash so I generally tend not to have them in villages that can't support it unless they are frontiers.

Culture buildings are also pretty good happiness raisers, hence growth promoters. The first level at least and in most places the second level too pay out, I think. Faster growth means higher tax incomes and less time before you can build the next tier of economic improvements.

Normally you have enough happiness that culture doesn't promote more growth but like cahaya said it's pretty much the first building I make in a newly captured town unless it's of the same culture.

[Barsoom]

Normally you have enough happiness that culture doesn't promote more growth but like cahaya said it's pretty much the first building I make in a newly captured town unless it's of the same culture.

I don't get it. Is there a cut-off point for happiness? Remember, culture buildings not only grow your culture, they also raise happiness.

[cahaya]

I don't get it. Is there a cut-off point for happiness? Remember, culture buildings not only grow your culture, they also raise happiness.

Yeah, good point. This is one reason I'm quick to build a 2-turn cultural building right along with any repairs necessary after taking a settlement. This reduces the size of the garrison necessary to keep the populace reasonably happy (80% happiness or better) from several units to possibly a single cheap-to-maintain basic infantry unit until they become free-of-cost to garrison.