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Thread: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

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  1. #1
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    Hi there, I was wandering around several topics and many persons was unhappy to see the Ireland faction removed. There's several reasons and they are logical. This current project will not pop tomorrow, I need information about Ireland, how was the monarchy in 1100 to 1220, the military composition, family members, etc.

    I've also want to add the Welsh as playable faction as well. But each faction will be for different WIP. Therefore, you'll have to choose between Ireland or the Welsh.

    One thing is sure, I'm willing to start this project but I'll not do it alone. I recruit. I need guys who do scripts, coding, mapping, knowledge about both of these factions, etc.
    Will personal factors and my current project. This WIP might take some time to do. So please, don't pushes me on it or I'll just close it.
    Last edited by Polycarpe; January 22, 2011 at 03:47 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    Ahh man, you want to add the Welsh too? This just keeps getting better and better. Is there any way they can not be made mutually exclusive or no?

    Here is my info regarding military from the other thread. Its basically a general summary of the Medieval Irish military structure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanier
    Irish nobles and kings kept fighting forces that were fairly well equipped (think knights) called the teaghlach - "troops of the household". These were men that the professional soldiers that were given lands, and they were divided into the footmen (archers, slingers, spearmen, and swordsmen) and cavalry (called Marcshluag). Irish cavalry were fast and well armed, while the footmen were mostly lighter infantry (think the Ostmen from kingdom's britannia campaign). These "elite" foot soldiers would probably be light infantry, similar to how the spanish factions and sicily have "elite" light swordsmen. It should also be noted that the cavalry were armed with javelins and, rather than a lance, an overarm spear. These heavier cavalry were accompanied by their Horseboys - Squires that would skirmish with javelins while the Marcshluag fought in melee. These nobles also occasionally fought on foot... therefore, a Dismounted Irish noble unit would be an option.

    Another type of troop was the Ceithirne congbala - local Irish warbands that were employed by the kings. Also called Kerns, these were largely unarmored and armed with bows, javelins, slings, or axes. Therefore, several different units could be made from kerns depending on what weapon they are using. They were, however, noted as being very fast. I guess these warbands conditioned themselves well.

    After 1167, "english" troops were more common in Irish armies. Kings also used knights, archers, men at arms, and hobilers, similar to those seen in English armies. These forces became hybridized under Irish kings, as they took on more Irish characteristics over time. I actually found a source that said that hobilers actually originated in Ireland, as there is apparently historical evidence of them being used far earlier in Ireland than by English armies. Plus, the name comes from the Irish horse breed.

    Gallowglasses were Connacht's "heavy infantry". They were the elite soldiers up until the gunpowder era, and they fought both with large axes (like in the britannia campaign) and with Claymore along with chain mail. I guess this could be represented with two different units - the Gallowglass Swordsman and the Gallowglass Axeman. While originally mercenaries, the Gallowglasses quickly incorporated native Irishmen in their ranks. These were the elite soldier, armed with heavy equipment, armor, and with a high sense of loyalty and morale.

    Levied troops were the gairmsluaigh. They were often levied by kings to fight alongside the professional soldiers mentioned above. They likely utilized spears.

    Finally, Scotish knights and pikemen were also present in later Irish armies (similar to how the french employed scots). Both lowlanders and highlanders were part of these forces, and they were not well armored (like the scottish highlander pikemen).

    Sources:
    http://warandgame.com/2008/09/07/armies-in-medieval-ireland/
    http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-irish-bastard-xix.htm
    http://www.scottishhistory.com/articles/independence/_derived/sourcecontrol_hobelar.htm
    http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/IV58.html
    So basically, the "lesser" troops were the gairmsluaigh and the Ceithirne warbands. Then there were the English/Irish hybrid soldiers, the elite teaghlach and their retinues, and the gallowglasses. Within each of these categories are multiple type of soldiers that could be units ingame.

  3. #3
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    The problem is right now there's only 1 free slot left for a faction. This is why I have to split up each faction.

  4. #4

    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    You could remove a faction like Timmies to free up aslot.

  5. #5

    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    I kinda like Peter's idea. Having unplayable factions in the game is a bad idea imo due to them limiting the number of playable factions.

    As a side note, Wales was independent in the early time period line but had been conquered by the late campaign time period. Therefore, they would be one of those factions that is only present in the early campaign... but you probably already knew that.

  6. #6
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    Quote Originally Posted by Peteriscoolz View Post
    You could remove a faction like Timmies to free up aslot.
    Well, I'm not really comfortable to "remove" a faction. I can remove units and scripts but not an entire faction.
    Last edited by Polycarpe; January 22, 2011 at 04:04 PM.

  7. #7
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    The Welsh will only be in the Early Campaign.

  8. #8

    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    So welsh and Irish?

  9. #9
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    Quote Originally Posted by Peteriscoolz View Post
    So welsh and Irish?
    It will be separate WIP, Irish or Welsh (Early only).

  10. #10

    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    Timurids killed millions, Irish ran around bogs, and didn't even have potato tech by this time. Choose

  11. #11
    SoulBlade's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    Timurids killed millions, Irish ran around bogs, and didn't even have potato tech by this time. Choose
    You mean...

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    Regarding the Irish, if its between them and the Timurids:
    Irish: ran around bogs and forests munching on potatoes
    Timurids: slaughtered millions and threw empires into terror

    OK I'm not sure the Irish had potatoes in medieval times but that still doesn't tip things in their favour
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    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    Regarding the Irish, if its between them and the Timurids:
    Irish: ran around bogs and forests munching on potatoes
    Timurids: slaughtered millions and threw empires into terror
    OK I'm not sure the Irish had potatoes in medieval times but that still doesn't tip things in their favour
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  12. #12

    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    Timurids killed millions, Irish ran around bogs, and didn't even have potato tech by this time. Choose

    haha

  13. #13

    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    i think this is a brill idea, i think the units should resemble that of the barbarians from RTW, as in they should be naturally tougher because of the harsher environment and "uncivilized" living. Could even have a left-over celt faction more akin to the scot highlanders than the naked warriors but hopefully you get what i mean.
    Last edited by David93; March 04, 2011 at 08:58 AM.

    The Orcs of Gundabad Erin go Bragh FROGS

    When I came back to Dublin I was court marshaled in my absence and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence"
    Brendan Behan
    The Irish won an Empire
    The Scots ran an Empire
    The English lost an Empire

    "When I told the people of Northern Ireland that I was an atheist, a woman in the audience stood up and said, 'Yes, but is it the God of the Catholics or the God of the Protestants in whom you don't believe?"
    - Quentin Crisp

    There is one weapon that the British cannot take away from us: we can ignore them.
    - Michael Collins

    They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken.
    - Bobby Sands

  14. #14
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    Checking outside in the TWC for unit roster for Ireland and Welsh.

    Okay, I might increase the amount of work but pretty sure that will interest someone. How about a campaign, based on SS, that will only regroup the Western Factions (excluding the Iberia). Here the Factions playable;

    -Kingdom Of Scotland
    -Kingdom of England
    -Kingdom of Ireland
    -Kingdom of France
    -Kingdom of Norway
    -Kingdom of Denmark
    -Holy Roman Empire
    -Welsh Kingdom

    There's other but want to know which one.

  15. #15
    newt's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    So what units are you getting rid of?

  16. #16
    Ferdiad's Avatar Patricius
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    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    Probaly the fantasy units and those templars like in his mod.

  17. #17

    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    If they havn't already been removed, I would also remove the late bodyguard units, since as I understand it, they arn't really used at all in this game.

  18. #18
    Ferdiad's Avatar Patricius
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    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    Yup, family members use early bodyguards.

  19. #19
    newt's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    Potatoes were from South America, so yeah. They didn't even have potato tech

  20. #20
    Ferdiad's Avatar Patricius
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    Default Re: British Isles WIP, Bringing Ireland back into SS

    We had Bog tech though

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