Huge cities question

[Mikhail]

Im currently playing as the Byzantines (with 6.3), and noticed that even with cities (such as Thessaloniki) that have huge populations of 30,000+ I cant upgrade them to huge cities. Why is that? Constantinople is the only city I can build (so far) as a huge city.

Do I have to wait for a certain event to get other cities to become Huge cities?

Is there a way to turn off this feature so that any city can be made into a huge city? And so that other factions will build them.

I dont like how when I conquer a foreign city it could easily be a huge city (like say Alexandria) but they dont build it to a huge city, so I have to, and it looks just like all my other cities.

[Polycarpe]

Put your mouse on the population number. You'll see the population needed to upgrade the city. Huge city is about 34,000 pop.

[k/t]

No, check the building browser. It will tell you if the city can become huge. Here's the list of those that can:

Oslo
Novgorod
Riga
Arhus
Edinburgh
Cracow/Kracow
London
Kiev
Bruges
Frankfurt
Paris
Budapest
Vienna
Milan
Venice
Leon
Zaragoza
Constantinople
Lisbon
Rome
Naples
Baghdad
Cordoba
Iconium
Jerusalem
Cairo
Urgench
Kazan

[PerXX]

That list only applies to the latest RR/RC Compilation, which aren't included in SS 6.4, as far as I know.

[k/t]

Don't you have the pretty much same map in 6.4?

[PerXX]

Well, the map layout is the same, but there's no hidden_resource Capitol to limit certain cities to the largest size. That was only added in the latest version of RR/RC - which isn't in 6.4

[newt]

Same map, but different hidden resources. There are no restrictions.

[gracul]

You can have huge cities and citadels everywhere you want - you only need to think ahead to get them. It ain't a walk in the park anymore. AI will still get Citadels tho - maybe even faster then the player.

[k/t]

Oh, I see. It's not just that latest version of RR/RC that has these restrictions, it's been like that for over a year. And 6.3 had these restrictions, since it was using the October 2009 RR/RC, right? And they were removed in 6.4?

[newt]

No. Both versions use the units and their stats and recruitment requirements, but everything else is basic SS.

[ByzantineCaesar]

I think that Thessalonica should start as a huge city. It was the 2nd capital of the Romans and I believe it had some 300,000 of population (no source, sorry).

[Ichon]

I think that Thessalonica should start as a huge city. It was the 2nd capital of the Romans and I believe it had some 300,000 of population (no source, sorry).

No. Even today the population of the city itself is in the 300,000 and there are good tax census numbers from Ottoman period where the population was under 20,000. Not tiny for medieval times but far from the huge city status of place slike Cordoba, Baghdad, Constantinople, etc. Though I don't know why Oslo is on the list for Huge.

[spH3RiCal]

(correction: Nowadays Thessaloniki has around 800,000 population )

[Ichon]

(correction: Nowadays Thessaloniki has around 800,000 population )

Depends how you measure it. The city has 380,000 or so- the wider metropolitan area has close to 850,000.

Like New York City has 8 million but the metro area has 20 million. The metro areas can be quite large though and often incorporate more than 1 city so when talking about the size a single city its more precise to use the population of that city otherwise a lot of people who live far away are included.

Tokyo is usually cited as the largest city in the world because the Kanto plain or greater metropolitan area has 33 milllion but that area covers 12,000 square kilometers. Would be like saying Thessaloniki, Constantinople, and Nicea are one area.

[ByzantineCaesar]

I've just looked at Wikipedia and read that Thessalonica's population in 1478 was only ~10,000. However, if we look to the past, the Muslims enslaved 22,000 young people in the Sack of Thessalonica, 904, according to Wikipedia. During the Komnenian Restoration the city thrived and, with prosper peace, the population increased. I could easily imagine Thessalonica's population to be at least 100,000-200,000 by ~1150, after all, she was the Symbasileiousa, co-empress. I think she should be included in the huge city's list and should start out at least as a large city. Maybe Trebizond, Alexandria, Isfahan, Damascus and Nicaea could be included into the huge city list?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Here is a map of Thessalonica during the Byzantine Era:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Ichon]

The 22,000 amount has only one source and the Muslims traded back were much fewer so it seems likely that number is inflated. Also you have to keep in mind its relative numbers dealing with city sizes- In the game max size is about 40,000 practically even though many cities were actually over 150,000 not even counting the greater region. For a city to be Huge size it needs to be on of the top tier cities otherwise many of cities in the game could be huge as at some point by 1500 many were at 30,000. Its about relative population of not just city but also the region.

It does seem Thessaloniki had a nice restoration during 1100-1200 but to 100,000+ which is actual approximate level of most of the Huge city sizes its questionable.

[newt]

All cities are in the 'huge city list' in vanilla SS.

This should be discussed in the RRRC suggestions thread.

[Ichon]

All cities are in the 'huge city list' in vanilla SS.

This should be discussed in the RRRC suggestions thread.

Not sure what you are saying? All Huge cities are completely unchanged since vanilla even with expansion of the map?

[newt]

In vanilla every single city can become huge. But population growth is nerfed so it's going to be hard getting there.

From The Man himself:

You can have huge cities and citadels everywhere you want - you only need to think ahead to get them. It ain't a walk in the park anymore. AI will still get Citadels tho - maybe even faster then the player.

[Ichon]

In vanilla every single city can become huge. But population growth is nerfed so it's going to be hard getting there.

From The Man himself:

I haven't played a full campaign with 6.4 yet so I'm not sure how much pop growth has been nerfed. It would have to be hugely nerfed to make it so every single region doesn't reach max size before the end of a campaign if all are allowed. If it is actually still a rare city that is Huge after 250 turns in a campaign then I don't mind as much every city on the Huge list but knowing how many ways there are to increase pop growth it seems weird that eventually every single city becomes a metropolis by 1500s.