HELP!!! Need Good Battle Strategy

[Dragkredra]

As the title say I need help for battle strategy

I suck at fighting battles, every time I fight on the battle map I would inflict a lot of casualties on both side and believe it or not the normal AI was able to flank my army (I know it's extremely stupid of me ). I usually play with a lot of infantry, is this right or should I change it?

My point is I was wandering if you guys could share some battle strategy with me including the army composition .

Currently I'm playing as England (vanilla) and Lithuania (Stainless Steel ), I would also appreciate if you guys could tell me more about how to play with this two faction.

(Sorry for the horrible sentence structure)

[Neige]

Vanilla M2 has only one strategy - hammer and anvil.

[Leaf-Fan-Forever]

Vanilla M2 has only one strategy - hammer and anvil.

Amen

[Fireright]

Might be worthwhile for the OP to polish his battle skills in the Custom Battles and play around with grouping, formations etc, and generally get a feel for 'whats what' The standard wisdom is to fight with a 'balanced' army, which is true enough, but it all depends really on the enemy army or situation being faced. A siege assault army usually needs less cavalry for example.

Similar applies in field battles when facing an enemy army full of archers... save yer money and use cheapo stuff...garbage peasants and light cavalry should do the job nicely.

And the ai is a real sucker for decoy tactics!!

[Dragkredra]

Vanilla M2 has only one strategy - hammer and anvil.

Ehm....
Could you explain what it is??? (feeling dumb right now)

@Maiar93
Thanks for the tips
I'll try it out

[Maiar93]

England is overall one of the crappiest factions, but maybe in campaign they get a lot of income and therefore PWN. Convert all your castles in the british isles to towns, this is important to establish the economic powerhouse England cant pwn without. Then i'd advise you to get a fair balanced army, preferably longbowmen, armoured swordsmen or feudal knights plus light cavalry for cavalry fight flanking and chasing the routing units down. For the strategy - you do not need to move, just gain a preferable position(from a hill or similar, bottlenecks, etc.) and bombard the enemy with longbows until they are close and engaged with your infantry. Then move your longbows to the flanks portected by cavalry and shoot the enemy to death if he tries a cavalry fight you'd always win it - AI never has enough cavalry against a well-balanced army.

As for Lithuania... it needs a little bit micromanagement skills. I'd suggest going for the sea trade as quickly as possible, and probably snatching a good town or castle, and then you can establish your economic and military powerhouse on the coasts and steamroll everything. Just use your archers wisely, preferably kill the enemy from flanks and isolate his units. A strategy idea for Lithuania could be to take care of the enemy cavalry first - when they come to kill your archers, trap them, kill them and then you have free hands to shoot his infantry and archers to death.

[KnightOfPortugal]

Use elephants.

EDIT: Hammer and anvil literally is what it means. This tactic can be used in many forms and with many different units, but the concept remains the same.

The most simple version has your infantry to act as 'the anvil', the enemy attacks it with all it's forces. Your enemy is the hot metal. Your cavalry is your hammer, and should sneak around your enemy's flank in order to charge into the back of the enemy, and delivering them a smashing blow.

[Maiar93]

Oh yes, hammer and anvil. The easiest, simplest and still the most important strike you can deliver. In med2 tho it is too slow/your cavalry get bogged down, so for better effect use longbows with fire arrows on to the backs and flanks of the enemy troops while charging to their backs.. works perfectly.

[PrestigeX]

If you are going to play with an army made up of mostly infantry , you still need a good horse component - atleast 3 units of horse plus a general.

I do it all the time playing as any faction, even the horse archer factions (say in the early period). The trick is to deploy your men into a longer but thiner line, have the horses start in the center. Deploy as close to the front limit of your deployment area as possible. When the battles starts, slowly move all your men at walking pace (so they not be too tired) towards the enemy. Make sure there's not stragglers, keep walking even in the face of enemy archers, then the trick is picking the right moment to charge in your cavalry, route/scare/kill their archers, forciing them to engage with their infantry/cav... rush in your infantry, and try to get your cavalry out of there - to save some lives, Make sure your infantry are all fighting, and use your cavalry to engage the enemy cavalry.

The reason you don't want to go for the automatic 'hammer and anvil' tactic right away is because, they will almost certainly have some archers left hanging around in the back. if you lose too many of your horse in melee, your infantry will have an impossible time hunting down those archers.

But, I usually wouldn't bring more than 8 units of regular "line" infantry into an army. You can have more , say 2 - 4 units of specialist infantry (ie. hassashims, dismounted knights) for odd jobs and for flanking. But i'd stick a solid contingent of horse and archers in their, then you have something that can destroy lots of armies without having too many casualties.

[Dragkredra]

Ok thanks everyone you guys have been a major help

[thespaniard]

oh yeah i use maybe 10 untis of line infantry and a few light infantry for an expensive cavalry faction such as the templars in ss they have good cav but its expensive and i can only fit 1-2 units of them in an army but hammer and anvil is very good stratagy in vanila and i really dont know what to say about luithuania since i really dont play as them much

[Orontid]

If you are in any trouble, the pause button is a godsend. The best place to use it, however, is right at the beginning of battle, just after you click the "Start Battle" button. Pausing allows you no only to see the enemy army, but also allows you to give any orders you like without the enemy moving. You can plan your tactics this way.

Also, a rule of thumb: Infantry>Spearmen>Cavalry>Archers>Horse Archers>Infantry.

This rule is useful for beginners to learn, although there are other factors (armour, numbers, fatigue, etc.) to consider.

Another tip: defence is usually easier than attack (at least for me). That way, you only have to worry about the placement of your troops, while the attacker is more fatigued from reaching you.

Hope this helps.

[Antimatkiller]

My units are always like this:


1 General
4 Calvary(forgive the spelling)
4 Range units
4 Spearmen
5 heavy infantry
2 siege weapons.

Thats catholic factions.

Muslim factions im usually a huge spender on mounted skirmish units.

[Silverheart]

As the title say I need help for battle strategy
I suck at fighting battles, every time I fight on the battle map I would inflict a lot of casualties on both side. I usually play with a lot of infantry, is this right or should I change it?
My point is I was wandering if you guys could share some battle strategy with me including the army composition.

Well, usually I like to have about 4 units of cavalry with me.
Once you learn to master cavalry, you´ll be invincible.

My favourite tactic is to divide the cavalry into 2 groups, and right at the start of the battle sending them to outflank the enemy - the goal is of course to charge around and take out their general.
Then you just run the cavalry around and try to place them where they have a good angle to charge the enemy archers or remaining cavalry. Avoid getting caught in a long melee, and stay away from enemy infantry.
Once the enemy has lost their cavalry and missile units (Artillery, too), and are down to only their infantry, you can just ride around and charge their flanks from behind, one unit at a time.
Or charge them with some heavy infantry to shock them into rout.

Also, I like to have a well balanced mix of about 10 units of infantry.
Infantry in Medieval 2 relies alot on numbers, brute force and shock - but since they´re going to be used for defending mostly, it is best to have a good mix of swordsmen and spearmen + plus some shock troops (like 2-handers). These are then used in a field battle to protect the archers (2-4 units, long-range preferable).
Whenever an enemy unit is threateningly close to your archers, charge the Infantry to fend them off.
Be sure to position your infantry and archers at a defensive position - the infantry lines should not be stretched longer than the archer line.

If your cavalry has suffered high casualties, and are too few to be of good use anymore, sacrifice the last of them to take out as many of the enemies missile troops as possible.
If there are no enemy missile or mounted troops left, then let the cavalry take shelter somewhere in an angle behind your infantry, and advance the infantry and archers slowly.
Let the archers fire at the enemy close-combat troops, and then charge with your infantry when the enemy tries to attack your archers (sometimes they just stand there and take it, in which case you should wait until the archers are out of ammo).

Keep your remaining cavalry ready at the flanks to chase routers.
That´s my favourite tactic in field battles. As you can see, it relies on cavalry to do the most important job, and doesn´t NEED any super-power infantry or archers, just a real big mass of them to intimidate the enemy. Using cavalry like this often makes the enemy passive, because they become unsure whether they should advance at your infantry or defend against your cavalry.
Add some artillery and heavier infantry to make it more effective when besieging, and more archers to make them better at defending themselves in field battles.

[shikaka]

As you are playing England.

Take
- 4-6 units of longbows.
- 4-6 units of armored swordsmen or dismounted knight (swordsmen are cheaper)
- 2-3 mailed knight (there are better, but you can retrain them easily)
- 1-2 general (if your main one is old, bring a young one too)
If you have slots left, take what you like, but I advise to leave out billhooks and 2handers, they are a waste of money!


in the first line you put your longbows
in the second line you put your swordsmen
to the rear you put cavalry

Turn off skirmish of longbowmen!
You advance up to the point, where your longbows start shooting, then stop. When the enemy appears to advance (to do something about the arrows) you move your swordsmen ahead of the bowmen.
If the AI tries a cavalry charge you counter with your cavalry, and if this clash is close to your main line, you send over 1-2 infantry to help.
Once the enemy infantry is battleing it out with your infantry, charge the flanks or rear with your cavalry.

edit: if the AI doesn't have any cavalry left, use your cavalrymen to harass the AI archers, so that you will have the ultimate archer advantage.


Lithuania in SS is a historical (skirmish, javelins) or kingdoms-like (horse archers)?

[EmperorDan]

England-you needd to remember two things about this faction: never use 2handers, and rely on your archers, as they are awsome!
Offensive army:
For infantry: 4 Heavy Infantry is ideal. More means expenditure.
2 Spearmen, just in case of enemy cavalry. They should be Mercs, as the english pretty much s.uck at this chapter.
4 Longbowmen units. Use their stakes no matter if you charge the enemy.
For Cavalry: 4 English Knights is the ideal number. But, they will drain the economy, and I recommend using them in extreme cases. Mailed Knights are just as good for flanking.
For artillery: Some catapults work wonders. 4 units means 8 shots at every 30 secs or so. And they are intimidating.
So, it`s not even a full stack, but it is quite effective if you know how to use it.

Offensive tactics: It depends mainly on one thing: if you have turned your battle timer on/off.
If you don`t have time, the zerg rush tactic is just as good.
If you have time, you shoul try to flank the enemy, or at least, not to charge head on when the enemy took position on a hill. When the armies close, rush a part, but not all your cavalry in the enemy archers. Make sure they don't ruin each other's charge. After the initial hit, when the enemy retreats his archers, you do the same with your cavalry. It will come a big infantr clash, and if your infantry needs help, or you just want to minimise the loses, charge the same cavalry that dispersed the archers in the back of the enemy infantry. It shouldn't take long before the infantry will rout-big big big chain reaction. Have the cavalry take as many prisoners as posible-it would help experience them. Now, as I mentioned before, only a part of your cavalry force would fight the archers and the infantry, the rest should take on the enemy cavalry [who is usualy 1-3 unit max] and the enemy artillery.

If you understood what I meant, and you wanna hear some strategies for a deffensive army, post, and I will continue.Best of luck!

[Maiar93]

England-you needd to remember two things about this faction: never use 2handers, and rely on your archers, as they are awsome!
Offensive army:
For infantry: 4 Heavy Infantry is ideal. More means expenditure.
2 Spearmen, just in case of enemy cavalry. They should be Mercs, as the english pretty much s.uck at this chapter.
4 Longbowmen units. Use their stakes no matter if you charge the enemy.
For Cavalry: 4 English Knights is the ideal number. But, they will drain the economy, and I recommend using them in extreme cases. Mailed Knights are just as good for flanking.
For artillery: Some catapults work wonders. 4 units means 8 shots at every 30 secs or so. And they are intimidating.
So, it`s not even a full stack, but it is quite effective if you know how to use it.

Offensive tactics: It depends mainly on one thing: if you have turned your battle timer on/off.
If you don`t have time, the zerg rush tactic is just as good.
If you have time, you shoul try to flank the enemy, or at least, not to charge head on when the enemy took position on a hill. When the armies close, rush a part, but not all your cavalry in the enemy archers. Make sure they don't ruin each other's charge. After the initial hit, when the enemy retreats his archers, you do the same with your cavalry. It will come a big infantr clash, and if your infantry needs help, or you just want to minimise the loses, charge the same cavalry that dispersed the archers in the back of the enemy infantry. It shouldn't take long before the infantry will rout-big big big chain reaction. Have the cavalry take as many prisoners as posible-it would help experience them. Now, as I mentioned before, only a part of your cavalry force would fight the archers and the infantry, the rest should take on the enemy cavalry [who is usualy 1-3 unit max] and the enemy artillery.

If you understood what I meant, and you wanna hear some strategies for a deffensive army, post, and I will continue.Best of luck!

Four of every unit type? EK drain economy when you have all towns in british isles? Have you ever played England properly

Nothing will drain England's economy unless you make ten full stacks of english knights. I'd suggest 6 inantry, 8 archers, 2 EK, 2 light cav, 2 catapults.

[EmperorDan]

mate, I don't mean immediate bankrupcy, but in time no matter how many towns you have, it will count.

4-5 times.

I like the number four, you have a problem with it?

[Nefarious]

As the title say I need help for battle strategy
<snip>
My point is I was wandering if you guys could share some battle strategy with me including the army composition .

As players, I think we sometimes forget the nature of factions. I know I do from time to time. Yet each is designed with a purpose in mind, as are their armies.
I, for one, am admittedly guilty of following the rock-paper-scissors approach to army composition:
Cav beat Inf, Inf beat Spear, Spear beat Cav, etc.
I've even used the hammer and anvil approach. By doing so, I created my own boredom.
We've all been told, whether through guides or forums or industry standards, that you MUST have a counter for whatever the enemy presents. In the field I simply had to have spear units guarding the flanks, archers and heavy infantry centered, and cavalry on the wings for flanking and envelopment. Hammer and anvil.
In sieges? Spears/Pikes at the gates backed by shock infantry, archers on the walls protected by swordsmen, blah blah blah...
...bland. Sound familiar?

But then I tried something.
It wasn't a new idea, by any means, but it was a departure from what I'd been convinced was proper.
I started forming armies as they'd been designed.

No longer would I have the same army only differentiated by what uniform they wore. The stats are nearly identical from grouping to grouping, so appeal could only be graphical. Right?
Ever had this conversation with yourself?
Hmm, whom shall I play this campaign? Armored or Noble Swordsmen? Zweihander or Gotland Footmen? Perhaps I'll enjoy seeing Voulgier for this campaign. Or maybe Ill be completely different and command JHI's, instead. Yeah. That would be soooo different.

Some factions appeal to certain people. Personally, I prefer the Northern European factions. I'll dabble with the Moors or Sicily from time to time, but I always return to my favorites:
Scotland, France, HRE, Denmark, and Ireland. And I now make it a point to compose their armies as intended.
1. Scottish shock troops backed by pike militia with Light cavalry for removing archers.
2. Simple French line infantry for pinning the foe, with heavy horse to annihilate them.
3. Danish archers joining the fray after the infantry has engaged.
Etc, etc, etc.

A standard rock-paper-scissors army can, indeed, take on nearly any opponent. And an archer-based army will decimate plodding infantry yet be slaughtered by heavy horse.
So what?
That doesn't matter to me, any longer. It's much more enjoyable now to play the Scots as hit-and-run. HRE is a hoot with the hammer and anvil infantry approach, as well. And seeing your prey's lines constantly adjust to the multitude of French knights flanking their position is, sniffsniff, beautiful in a somewhat sinister way.

If you prefer a faction for its looks then, by all means, enjoy yourself. I most definitely do that. Guilty as charged. But playing my preferred eye candy as they were designed is more rewarding than I had imagined. One must plan ahead, rather than be confident in his stack's compositional superiority.

One can still develop their standard balanced stacks, but please don't.
Perhaps, like myself, you may start developing task-specific stacks. I actually have one half-stack of Light Cavalry whose job is simply pre-battle harassment.
They withdraw/lose nearly every battle, but that's their job! They handle the problem units, then my proper army takes the field against a depleted foe.
This is, in fact, quite historical and proper. Scouts would often engage and harass enemies for days before they arrived at a battlefield.
The actual battle was already won before it began.

Just one suggestion.

[Drustan]

Strategy means sod all in m2. That's why I prefer Rome when it comes to battles.