How is China Even Remotely Communist

[Veliky Kaiser Theos]

It's resembles capitalism, especially that of the 18th-19th centuries with the squalor of it's proletarian class. However it does represent Stalinism with its rampant censorship, and did so even more during the cultural revolution (compare the levels of starvation, and to a lesser extent, murder with the Stalin's purges of the Kulaks). While I respect the power it has developed, it is a bare faced lie to still call it communist.

[alhoon]

They're "communists" because:
- they declare they are communists
- You can't freely buy stuff all the times, although it becomes more and more lax

Reading my post...
yeah, they're hypocrites.

[Col. Tartleton]

China has never been communist. There has never been a communist society. There will never be a communist society.

[Exarch]

China has never been communist. There has never been a communist society. There will never be a communist society.

this,

also, ppl should try to refrain from classifying modern china for the fact that modern china is in a quasi 'transitional phase', as deng xiaoping said something along the lines of feeling the way by feeling for the stones in the river or seomthing.

[hellheaven1987]

I do find our current situation is very similar as classical Greece (Athens, Sparta and Thebes; Chinese behavior is very close to the bastard Thebes in every way).

[Exarch]

thebes eh? i should read up on them again; what similarities do u see there?

btw u just reminded me of what a poster remarked a few months ago; that the foreign relation between china and the US was similar to the relationship between sparta and athens

[hellheaven1987]

thebes eh? i should read up on them again; what similarities do u see there?

btw u just reminded me of what a poster remarked a few months ago; that the foreign relation between china and the US was similar to the relationship between sparta and athens

Well, Athens is quite similar as US in mentality - die-hard democracy supporters that wanted to put every Greek cities into democracy, and believed deeply democracy was how "Freedom of Greek" should be. Sparta, on the other hand, is similar as Soviet (it is not like China, however). Although Sparta had democracy in lower level and two kings (Soviet did have democracy in lower level), its policies were largely controlled by an elder council. Like Soviet, Sparta also believed oligarchy was right path, although unlike Athens, Spartans did not go crazy converting everyone into oligarchy because it had a tradition of isolation (well, it did try to spread oligarchy after Peloponnesian War but it was not like Athenians who spreading democracy like some Holy Bible). Lastly, Thebes, a city that was once an oligarchy but changed to limited democracy after Peloponnesian War (like China, an unfaithful believer of Communism). What made Thebes similar as China, however, was its tricky foreign policy that including back-stab and pulling its allies into troubles; Thebes was, before and during Peloponnesian War, the firm allies of Sparta (ya, like Sino-Soviet alliance), but after getting Plataea during Peloponnesian War (well, you can see Plataea like Taiwan), Thebes back-stabbed Sparta and immediately allied with Athens (ya, remember the Sino-Soviet split and Sion-US alliance??). The new Athens-Thebes alliance, after another thirty years of violence, finally brough down the Spartan Empire - ya, you can see how that similar as the end of Cold War...

Anywhere, I still need to see who is going to play Achaemenid Empire and Macedonia, and we are set for another great war.

[Col. Tartleton]

Haha yep. Long live the God Emperor of Hankind.

[Exarch]

that particular visit was a catastrophe

[Snoopy]

It's resembles capitalism, especially that of the 18th-19th centuries with the squalor of it's proletarian class. However it does represent Stalinism with its rampant censorship, and did so even more during the cultural revolution (compare the levels of starvation, and to a lesser extent, murder with the Stalin's purges of the Kulaks). While I respect the power it has developed, it is a bare faced lie to still call it communist.

First of all, I agree that China isn't really Communist anymore.

Second, I cringe at your description of China as resembling 18th-19th century Capitalism. China resembles Italian style fascism far more right now, what with the government manipulating the currency, the government basically having indirect control of all corporations, and the archaic land ownership system that means that the Chinese government owns all land, and "land owners" are only loaning it.

[Mr. Scott]

It's resembles capitalism, especially that of the 18th-19th centuries with the squalor of it's proletarian class. However it does represent Stalinism with its rampant censorship, and did so even more during the cultural revolution (compare the levels of starvation, and to a lesser extent, murder with the Stalin's purges of the Kulaks). While I respect the power it has developed, it is a bare faced lie to still call it communist.

They're communists, but without the equality part.

So you don't get freedom, and your still not equal...

[Matthias]

It's resembles capitalism, especially that of the 18th-19th centuries with the squalor of it's proletarian class. However it does represent Stalinism with its rampant censorship, and did so even more during the cultural revolution (compare the levels of starvation, and to a lesser extent, murder with the Stalin's purges of the Kulaks). While I respect the power it has developed, it is a bare faced lie to still call it communist.

It's a totalitarrian state with a mixed economy (mostly capitalist). I would say that its economy is more hands off and more "capitalist" in many ways than the US economy.

China is still industrializing. It is going through the big boom that the US had when it started industrializing in the late 1800s, except they have the advantage of having the technology already there and having others gone before them, so it will be a faster and smoother industrialization, but still a lot of change for Chinese society.

[Jingles]

China has never been communist or socialist. The chaos of the Mao era can hardly be described as either of the two, and it's abundantly clear that China today represents neither.

[Justice and Mercy]

You're right, China most certainly isn't Communist.

Their leadership is, in my opinion, 100% Pragmatist in policy.

No, I don't believe that to be a good thing.

[Mr. Scott]

You're right, China most certainly isn't Communist.

Their leadership is, in my opinion, 100% Pragmatist in policy.

No, I don't believe that to be a good thing.

But these practical policies are often hindered because of the decentralization in China. Local authorities hold a considerable amount of power and often undermine Beijing's policies. Beijing's outlook is based on a nation wide looking glass, compared to the local leader's provincial looking glass. Coastal regions don't want to sacrifice some of their well being for that of the interior.

[Justice and Mercy]

But these practical policies are often hindered because of the decentralization in China. Local authorities hold a considerable amount of power and often undermine Beijing's policies. Beijing's outlook is based on a nation wide looking glass, compared to the local leader's provincial looking glass. Coastal regions don't want to sacrifice some of their well being for that of the interior.

...yes?

This is exactly where Pragmatic policies lead.

[mrtonberry]

But these practical policies are often hindered because of the decentralization in China. Local authorities hold a considerable amount of power and often undermine Beijing's policies. Beijing's outlook is based on a nation wide looking glass, compared to the local leader's provincial looking glass. Coastal regions don't want to sacrifice some of their well being for that of the interior.

You are right. In the chinese system the central government at least push for reforms whether they are effective or not. While in american system they will get cockblocked right away, and thus stagnation.

[RollingWave]

Ummm... welcome to 30 years ago? (or at least 20)

Before the 80s, you could at least argue that China was TRYING to be a communist country, but that hasn't been the case for a long time now.

Though there is a socialist China.... just that it's in Taiwan...

[Jugurtha]

How is the pope even remotely Christian?

Ummm... welcome to 30 years ago? (or at least 20)

Before the 80s, you could at least argue that China was TRYING to be a communist country, but that hasn't been the case for a long time now.

So what it takes for communism is mass starvation and severe punishment for even 1-man enterprise? Everybody must understand this word in a very different manner.
China has world's greatest economic growth today like Stalin had before he was invaded by the joint Axis forces. The modern Chinese establishment communist's line of argumentation isn't any different from that of Joe S.: "Beat the bourgeois in economy and geopolitics first, go on with building a world wide kibbutz later."
China fell back to Manchester Capitalism, Stalin became a slave driver. All for the love of Marx. The popes had blessed massacres and brothels in order to spread Christ's teachings on celibacy and love.

A communist government is an oxymoron.....

Sure, the government is a tool for one class to oppress the others accroding to the classics of socialist thought. A Chinese lawyer, bureaucrat or industrialist would take his time to explain how the Chinese state is formed by Chinese proletarians to defend themselves against the foreign bourgeoisie. A Chinese sweat shop worker will claim there is some other new ruling class in China.
It's very much like the slinging contests between any establishment and any opposition. Any [blanket]ism is but a bunch of oxymorons (hence dialectics, "the negation of negation").

[Dr. Oza]

They are state capitalists.