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  1. #1
    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    Default Racial segregation in the Netherlands

    Segregation in the Netherlands
    From the desk of Paul Belien on Wed, 2006-01-18 13:07
    Remember the American South in the early 1960s? Or South Africa in the 1980s? That is what Western Europe in the early 21st century is beginning to resemble. A school in Amsterdam has introduced separate entrances for white and coloured pupils. At the Rietlanden/8th Montessori school in the east end of Amsterdam there are two separate entrances 30 metres apart, one for native Dutch children and one for immigrants. The school authorities claim that this situation has nothing to do with racism because the school welcomes children from all ethnic groups. All it wants is for them to enter through different doors. The school constitutes a complex with two sections. One, the coloured section, is called “Rietlanden,” the other, the white section, “8th Montessori.”

    “For one reason or another our school had acquired a bad reputation,” headmistress Annemieke van der Groen says. “In such a case you can invest in quality as much as you like, but it is difficult to convince white parents to enroll their children here. If they come to have a look, they say ‘You know, with all these black children’ and enroll their children elsewhere.” Hence, the two entrances and different names for the same school.

    Local councillors Fatima Elatik and Ahmed Aboutaleb are not happy with the situation. They are in favour of mixed schools and suggest enforcing this by forbidding white parents from enrolling their child in a school unless they bring along a non-white couple with a child to enroll as well. Deputy headmistress Nelly Bruin of the Rietlanden school opposes such a measure: “What you will see then is that highly educated parents will bring along educated immigrants. You will end up with schools for uneducated immigrants and white trash. That is not what you would want either.”

    This type of problem is likely to increase in the future. Of the 16 million inhabitants of the Netherlands, ten percent are immigrants. There are 1.1 million “traditional immigrants” – mainly Turks and Moroccans – and 560,000 (former) asylum seekers. Of the latter group an additional 10,000 enter the Netherlands each year, of the former some 55,000. These are mainly young people of childbearing age.

    There are currently 359,000 ethnic Turks in the Netherlands, 45% of whom are “second generation” Turks, meaning that they were born in the Netherlands. There are 316,000 Moroccans, of whom 47% are second generation. Among the asylum seekers the largest groups are Iranians (37,000, of whom 12% are second generation) and Afghans (29,000, of whom 17% are second generation).

    190,000 babies were born in the Netherlands in 2005. The birthrate is declining fast. In 2004 there were 195,000 births; in 2003 there were 200,000; in 2002 there were 202,000. The Dutch authorities expect that by 2010 the number of births will have fallen below 180,000. Within this shrinking group, the number of immigrant newborns (second and even third generation) continues to grow: from under 40,000 in 1996 to over 48,500 in 2004. A quarter of them are ethnic Moroccans, 20% is Turkish. In Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague half the newborns are of non-Western origin. Dutch women have on average 1.5 children. The number for Moroccan women living in the Netherlands is 3.3 and for Turkish women 2.3.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    Combined with:

    Dutch desert their changing country
    By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in The Hague
    (Filed: 11/12/2004)


    An exodus of native-born Dutch in search of a new life abroad has reversed immigration flows for the first time since the post-war era.

    Last year more people left the Netherlands than arrived as migrants or asylum seekers, even though unemployment remains low at 4.7 percent and per capita income is higher than any major country in Europe.

    Lawyers, accountants, computer specialist, nurses, and businessmen are lining up for visas to the English-speaking world, looking to Australia, New Zealand and Canada as orderly societies where people have the space to breathe.

    The new wave of "middle-class flight" has quickened this year following rising ethnic violence and crime committed by and against immigrants, and in response to fears that social order is breaking down. In the first six months there was a net outflow of 13,313 people.

    They are disengaging from a multicultural experiment once hailed as the model for the world but now stretched to breaking point. They are also escaping traffic jams and chronic over-crowding.

    Requests for visa information have exploded since the murder of Theo van Gogh, a Dutch film-maker and acerbic critic of Muslim views on women.

    An all-party report by the Dutch parliament this year concluded that the country's immigration policy had been a failure, leading to sink schools and ethnic ghettoes.

    The Netherlands has been transformed in barely 30 years from a tight-knit Christian society into a polyethnic state, with three million people of immigrant background.

    ----------------------------------------

    And so it goes...
    Depressing.
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

    ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture

  2. #2

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    Its quite common that all countries segregate those that are not originally from the 'motherland'. Especially in europe. *gasp*

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    Darth Wong's Avatar Pit Bull
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilpuri
    Depressing.
    edit - post removed for trolling, warning issued, Tac
    Last edited by Tacticalwithdrawal; January 20, 2006 at 09:28 AM.

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    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    Edit - text removed as flaming. Wilpuri has made it clear that by saying it was depressing he did not endorse this as a solution
    Last edited by Tacticalwithdrawal; January 20, 2006 at 09:28 AM.
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

    ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture

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    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    jeeze, just using the word "colored people" would get your ass kicked over here.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  6. #6

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    ah It's is not so bad actually, I live in the Netherlands and have an Iranian girlfriend. We both study law at the university. But anyway, 2nd wave immigrants are generally poor educated and have trouble getting work so they go live together in cheap neighberhoods and have lots of children. nothing new, ahppens all over the world.

    Mad Guitar Murphy

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    Darth Wong's Avatar Pit Bull
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    That's precisely the issue; if immigrants are assessed for education and job skills before entry into the country rather than "culture" (which is quite frankly often used as a code-word for "race" or "religion"), then a lot of these problems won't occur. And if their children are treated as full-blooded citizens (something that doesn't happen in a lot of European countries), a lot of the 2nd generation problems will be mitigated.

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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Wong
    That's precisely the issue; if immigrants are assessed for education and job skills before entry into the country rather than "culture" (which is quite frankly often used as a code-word for "race" or "religion"), then a lot of these problems won't occur. And if their children are treated as full-blooded citizens (something that doesn't happen in a lot of European countries), a lot of the 2nd generation problems will be mitigated.
    Actually taking some effort in completing their education would be of some use too. You see, it isn't so much that immigrant children have a smaller chance of getting a good education, it's the fact that they are not willing to put any effort into it. The majority of unemployed immigrants are brats who were too lazy to finish their education. They just rather 'hang around', harass harmless bystanders and demolish busstations...

    And yes, employers tend to discriminate when it comes to hiring employees. But from a bussiness point of view, that's completely logical. I've heard of countless of cases where a couple of Moroccons or Antilians just didn't show up for work, just because they weren't in the 'mood' for it. No wonder employer stop hiring immigrants from that moment on...

  9. #9
    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torment
    Actually taking some effort in completing their education would be of some use too. You see, it isn't so much that immigrant children have a smaller chance of getting a good education, it's the fact that they are not willing to put any effort into it. The majority of unemployed immigrants are brats who were too lazy to finish their education. They just rather 'hang around', harass harmless bystanders and demolish busstations...

    And yes, employers tend to discriminate when it comes to hiring employees. But from a bussiness point of view, that's completely logical. I've heard of countless of cases where a couple of Moroccons or Antilians just didn't show up for work, just because they weren't in the 'mood' for it. No wonder employer stop hiring immigrants from that moment on...
    Yeah, in the more or less socialist Netherlands, how exactly are the kids of immigrants denied the right to education that the Dutch receive?
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

    ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilpuri
    Segregation in the Netherlands
    From the desk of Paul Belien on Wed, 2006-01-18 13:07
    Remember the American South in the early 1960s? Or South Africa in the 1980s? That is what Western Europe in the early 21st century is beginning to resemble. A school in Amsterdam has introduced separate entrances for white and coloured pupils. At the Rietlanden/8th Montessori school in the east end of Amsterdam there are two separate entrances 30 metres apart, one for native Dutch children and one for immigrants. The school authorities claim that this situation has nothing to do with racism because the school welcomes children from all ethnic groups. All it wants is for them to enter through different doors. The school constitutes a complex with two sections. One, the coloured section, is called “Rietlanden,” the other, the white section, “8th Montessori.”

    “For one reason or another our school had acquired a bad reputation,” headmistress Annemieke van der Groen says. “In such a case you can invest in quality as much as you like, but it is difficult to convince white parents to enroll their children here. If they come to have a look, they say ‘You know, with all these black children’ and enroll their children elsewhere.” Hence, the two entrances and different names for the same school.

    Local councillors Fatima Elatik and Ahmed Aboutaleb are not happy with the situation. They are in favour of mixed schools and suggest enforcing this by forbidding white parents from enrolling their child in a school unless they bring along a non-white couple with a child to enroll as well. Deputy headmistress Nelly Bruin of the Rietlanden school opposes such a measure: “What you will see then is that highly educated parents will bring along educated immigrants. You will end up with schools for uneducated immigrants and white trash. That is not what you would want either.”

    This type of problem is likely to increase in the future. Of the 16 million inhabitants of the Netherlands, ten percent are immigrants. There are 1.1 million “traditional immigrants” – mainly Turks and Moroccans – and 560,000 (former) asylum seekers. Of the latter group an additional 10,000 enter the Netherlands each year, of the former some 55,000. These are mainly young people of childbearing age.

    There are currently 359,000 ethnic Turks in the Netherlands, 45% of whom are “second generation” Turks, meaning that they were born in the Netherlands. There are 316,000 Moroccans, of whom 47% are second generation. Among the asylum seekers the largest groups are Iranians (37,000, of whom 12% are second generation) and Afghans (29,000, of whom 17% are second generation).

    190,000 babies were born in the Netherlands in 2005. The birthrate is declining fast. In 2004 there were 195,000 births; in 2003 there were 200,000; in 2002 there were 202,000. The Dutch authorities expect that by 2010 the number of births will have fallen below 180,000. Within this shrinking group, the number of immigrant newborns (second and even third generation) continues to grow: from under 40,000 in 1996 to over 48,500 in 2004. A quarter of them are ethnic Moroccans, 20% is Turkish. In Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague half the newborns are of non-Western origin. Dutch women have on average 1.5 children. The number for Moroccan women living in the Netherlands is 3.3 and for Turkish women 2.3.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    Combined with:

    Dutch desert their changing country
    By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in The Hague
    (Filed: 11/12/2004)


    An exodus of native-born Dutch in search of a new life abroad has reversed immigration flows for the first time since the post-war era.

    Last year more people left the Netherlands than arrived as migrants or asylum seekers, even though unemployment remains low at 4.7 percent and per capita income is higher than any major country in Europe.

    Lawyers, accountants, computer specialist, nurses, and businessmen are lining up for visas to the English-speaking world, looking to Australia, New Zealand and Canada as orderly societies where people have the space to breathe.

    The new wave of "middle-class flight" has quickened this year following rising ethnic violence and crime committed by and against immigrants, and in response to fears that social order is breaking down. In the first six months there was a net outflow of 13,313 people.

    They are disengaging from a multicultural experiment once hailed as the model for the world but now stretched to breaking point. They are also escaping traffic jams and chronic over-crowding.

    Requests for visa information have exploded since the murder of Theo van Gogh, a Dutch film-maker and acerbic critic of Muslim views on women.

    An all-party report by the Dutch parliament this year concluded that the country's immigration policy had been a failure, leading to sink schools and ethnic ghettoes.

    The Netherlands has been transformed in barely 30 years from a tight-knit Christian society into a polyethnic state, with three million people of immigrant background.

    ----------------------------------------

    And so it goes...
    Depressing.
    Well, were is ERIK from the Netherlands in
    response to this posting above.
    Unfortunately that's bad for Europe and good
    for the U.S.A.; maybe they (engineers, skilled
    technicians, etc.) will immigrate to
    the U.S.A./Mexico and Australia and aid those countries economies.
    Also, they can warn those surviving western
    countries about multicultralism taken to extremes,
    and immigration without certain critea being met,
    and the threat of anti-nationalist, liberal socialism.

    P.S. A Korean person once told me,"Europeans
    are the only people in the world who is making
    themselves minorities in their own lands voluntarily, an
    amazing race, really amazing. That would
    never happen in Asia, we are too smart
    for that to occur."

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIGERCAT
    Well, were is ERIK from the Netherlands in
    response to this posting above.
    Here I am!
    I actually live in the Eastern part of Amsterdam, very close to that school.

    I have never heared of this before, but this is no surprise because the whole article is complete bull.
    It's very common for forreign media to re-interpret stories from my country.
    They take a Dutch story, twist the facts, and then publish it hoping none of their readers is capable of checking it's source.

    But if you dig deep...very deep... there is a small truth burried somewhere under all that crap.
    In the Netherlands we do have schools that are almost entirely "white" and schools that are almost entirely "black".
    This isn't caused by racism, but by the fact that we have "public" (often black) schools and "special" (often white) schools.
    The right to have special schools is actually in our constitution (article 23, "freedom of education"), but many people want to abolish it exactly for this reason.

    "Special" schools include religious schools, but also schools that use different teaching methods.
    They can be compared to private schools in other countries, but unlike private schools they receive public funding just like public schools.
    A Montessori school is a special school where students are given more responsibilities and freedoms.
    I used to go to a Montessori school myself, but I switched to a chistian school because the Montessori method didn't teach me the discipline I needed.
    In Amsterdam the Mintessori schools are considered amonst the very best, and they are very popular.
    But because they are so popular they have extremely long waitinglists.
    People actually sign up babies so they can go to a Montessori school when they are 6 years old!
    Not many immigrants plan their kids school career 6 years in advance, so they are often left with the less popular schools that have shorter waiting lists.
    It's a flawed system that overall gives "white" kids better education than "black" kids, but it's not racist.

    Now about the article:
    They are talking about two schools:
    A public school (Rietlanden), and a special school (8th Montessori).
    Both schools are located in the same building but they have seperated classrooms, hallways and entrances.
    I'm pretty sure both schools contain students from different races but the 8th Montessori, because of it's nature, has a much lower percentage of immigrants than the Rietlanden school.
    White students from the Rietlanden go trough the same door as their black classmates, and the same goes for the Montessori school.
    There is no racial division, there is only the illusion of segregation if you don't know that there are two seperate schools inside.

    edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by wilpuri
    Yeah, in the more or less socialist Netherlands, how exactly are the kids of immigrants denied the right to education that the Dutch receive?
    As I already said above:
    The seperation is made trough waiting lists.
    In countries like the UK or US they have "white" and "black" schools too, but there the seperation is made by making "white schools" (=private) more expensive than "black schools" (=public).
    It's a tradeoff in socialism/communism: everybody can finacially afford to buy the best...but not everybody can afford to wait in line long enough to get to the front.

  12. #12
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    Well Erik explained it perfectly. I was shocked at first but not really suprised. I am against different type of schools but the fact is it is inevatible. Muslim immigrants want to keep their kids muslim so they send them to special schools. Same goes for christians. And people who do not believe (majority) send their kids to public schools which I find the best choice. They really should teach those kids in public school about all religion and let them grow up together. This I believe will help a lot.
    In patronicvm svb Jesus The Inane

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    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    So what exactly is the deal, is this:

    "“For one reason or another our school had acquired a bad reputation,” headmistress Annemieke van der Groen says. “In such a case you can invest in quality as much as you like, but it is difficult to convince white parents to enroll their children here. If they come to have a look, they say ‘You know, with all these black children’ and enroll their children elsewhere.” Hence, the two entrances and different names for the same school."

    Untrue? I'm not sure I quite understood what you mean. Are there two different schools? Because here it says they are the same school.
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

    ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilpuri
    So what exactly is the deal, is this:

    "“For one reason or another our school had acquired a bad reputation,” headmistress Annemieke van der Groen says. “In such a case you can invest in quality as much as you like, but it is difficult to convince white parents to enroll their children here. If they come to have a look, they say ‘You know, with all these black children’ and enroll their children elsewhere.” Hence, the two entrances and different names for the same school."

    Untrue? I'm not sure I quite understood what you mean. Are there two different schools? Because here it says they are the same school.
    I believe he meant that there are 2 seperate schools in the same building. Each have there own entrance. The one is public and the other special.

    I think it is untrue especially since Erik lives so close by.
    In patronicvm svb Jesus The Inane

  15. #15

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    ERIK, is this true what Wilpuri posted:

    An exodus of native-born Dutch in search of a new life abroad has reversed immigration flows for the first time since the post-war era.

    Last year more people left the Netherlands than arrived as migrants or asylum seekers, even though unemployment remains low at 4.7 percent and per capita income is higher than any major country in Europe.

    Lawyers, accountants, computer specialist, nurses, and businessmen are lining up for visas to the English-speaking world, looking to Australia, New Zealand and Canada as orderly societies where people have the space to breathe.

    The new wave of "middle-class flight" has quickened this year following rising ethnic violence and crime committed by and against immigrants, and in response to fears that social order is breaking down. In the first six months there was a net outflow of 13,313 people.

    They are disengaging from a multicultural experiment once hailed as the model for the world but now stretched to breaking point. They are also escaping traffic jams and chronic over-crowding.

    Requests for visa information have exploded since the murder of Theo van Gogh, a Dutch film-maker and acerbic critic of Muslim views on women.
    An all-party report by the Dutch parliament this year concluded that the country's immigration policy had been a failure, leading to sink schools and ethnic ghettoes.

    The Netherlands has been transformed in barely 30 years from a tight-knit Christian society into a polyethnic state, with three million people of immigrant background.


    Maybe, I hope they don't come here; LOL we (U.S.A.) have enough
    problems with the L-1 VISA issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TIGERCAT
    ERIK, is this true what Wilpuri posted:

    An exodus of native-born Dutch in search of a new life abroad has reversed immigration flows for the first time since the post-war era.
    This is true, but.

    They are disengaging from a multicultural experiment once hailed as the model for the world but now stretched to breaking point. They are also escaping traffic jams and chronic over-crowding.
    There is no indication that the "flee" because of ethnic tensions.
    This is complete speculation and not very logic if you consider the fact they many of them "flee" to places with even more immigrants, and they wil in fact be immigrants themselves.

    There are other, much stronger, reasons why Dutch people immigrate.
    These include the huge amount of traffic, small living space, and polluted environment.
    The Netherlands is one of the most densly populated and most polluted countries in the world.

    And life in the Netherlands is also very expensive.
    Even if you make a good living in the Netherlands you can only afford a small house, and mid-sized car.
    An ex-girlfriend of mine liven in France until she was 18.
    In France she had a swimmingpool, a pony, and a go-cart track in the garden.
    In Amsterdam they have a home most forreigners would call mid-sized, and just a small garden.
    If you are middle-classed in the Netherlands you can live in small appartment, or you can move to Romania and live like a King.

    I also wonder how much of the immigration involves Dutch people who move just accross the boarder to Belgium, where taxes are much lower, and then commute to work in the Netherlands every day.
    There has always been a lot of people who do this.

    Another reason why many people move is our horrible bureaucracy.
    Especially farmers get sick of Dutch laws so they move to Poland or the US.
    50% of the milk production in the US is controlled by Dutch farmers who migrated to the Mid-West during the last few decades.
    In the Netherlands they had a few hundred cows, but in the US they have several thousands so they can make serious money.

    You must also consider the fact that the Netherlands is very tiny.
    If you want to move just 200km you wil have to immigrate.
    So naturally we have a lot more immigreation/capita than huge countries like the US or Russia.

    But IMO this isn't a real problem, it just leaves more room and well paid jobs for me!
    And when I'm older I might move to Eastern-Europe myself, Poland seems very nice to me.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik
    This is true, but.



    There is no indication that the "flee" because of ethnic tensions.
    This is complete speculation and not very logic if you consider the fact they many of them "flee" to places with even more immigrants, and they wil in fact be immigrants themselves.

    There are other, much stronger, reasons why Dutch people immigrate.
    These include the huge amount of traffic, small living space, and polluted environment.
    The Netherlands is one of the most densly populated and most polluted countries in the world.

    Another reason why many people move is our horrible bureaucracy.
    Especially farmers get sick of Dutch laws so they move to Poland or the US.
    50% of the milk production in the US is controlled by Dutch farmers who migrated to the Mid-West during the last few decades.
    In the Netherlands they had a few hundred cows, but in the US they have several thousands so they can make serious money.
    I didn't know this about the U.S. dairy farms.
    I thought most of the dairy farmers were German or Norwegian.
    We have some of the same problems with population
    density along the coastlines.(example northern New Jersey
    & New York) Many people are moving into the interior of
    the nation because of traffic congestion, housing,
    and cost of living, etc. The housing costs in
    New York City and Boston are terrible.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik
    This is true, but.

    There is no indication that the "flee" because of ethnic tensions.
    This is complete speculation and not very logic if you consider the fact they many of them "flee" to places with even more immigrants, and they wil in fact be immigrants themselves.
    Neither New Zealand, Australia, Canada or the United States has a comparable proportionate composition of immigrants to the Netherlands. It is true that they may welcome a higher aggregate total[immigrants], but they also have many times the population[in the cases of the USA and Canada], and certainly space necessary for dilution.
    There are other, much stronger, reasons why Dutch people immigrate.
    These include the huge amount of traffic, small living space, and polluted environment.
    The Netherlands is one of the most densly populated and most polluted countries in the world.
    This has been true for centuries, but this marks the first time that so much outmigration has ensued. It would be foolish to discount other possibilities such as rising crime or Islamic militancy which is rife, nor should we ignore that those problems you cite[pollution & overcrowding] are a direct result of immigration policy which has contributed greatly to the present situation, importing people with much higher birth rates, and in sufficient numbers to upset balance.

    And life in the Netherlands is also very expensive.
    Even if you make a good living in the Netherlands you can only afford a small house, and mid-sized car.
    An ex-girlfriend of mine liven in France until she was 18.
    In France she had a swimmingpool, a pony, and a go-cart track in the garden.
    In Amsterdam they have a home most forreigners would call mid-sized, and just a small garden.
    If you are middle-classed in the Netherlands you can live in small appartment, or you can move to Romania and live like a King.
    What? But Europeans aren't materialistic!!! So, you mean to say that people go where the money's at?
    I also wonder how much of the immigration involves Dutch people who move just accross the boarder to Belgium, where taxes are much lower, and then commute to work in the Netherlands every day.
    There has always been a lot of people who do this.
    Maybe you didn't read the article, but the majority are moving to ENGLISH SPEAKING countries. Unless English is the official language of Belgium...
    Why would people move out of the Netherlands simply because taxes are lower in other places? What, they don't want the social programs? But I thought that people preferred social programs to disposable income...This makes no sense.

    Another reason why many people move is our horrible bureaucracy.
    Socialism=big government=lots of rules=lots of bureaucrats necessary to administer them. How can you dislike bureaucracy but love socialism? Isn't that a little like hating wheels, but loving cars?
    It's a trade-off though, right? You do get awesome social programs don't you?

    Especially farmers get sick of Dutch laws so they move to Poland or the US.
    50% of the milk production in the US is controlled by Dutch farmers who migrated to the Mid-West during the last few decades.
    In the Netherlands they had a few hundred cows, but in the US they have several thousands so they can make serious money.
    You do realize that farmers aren't exactly renowned for constituting a large percentage of the population anywhere. So, 100 farmers leave for the US, I fail to see how that's meaningful part of out-migration.
    I don't get this: how can you be sick of the laws when the state is clearly taking care of you?

    You must also consider the fact that the Netherlands is very tiny.
    If you want to move just 200km you wil have to immigrate.
    So naturally we have a lot more immigreation/capita than huge countries like the US or Russia.
    This is ridiculous: you're clutching at straws hombre.

    But IMO this isn't a real problem, it just leaves more room and well paid jobs for me!
    So, you think that the out-migration of the most skilled, educated and mobile Netherlanders isn't going to produce long-term problems? Sure, they're being replaced...by the worst the Third World has to offer in terms of education and mores.

    And when I'm older I might move to Eastern-Europe myself, Poland seems very nice to me.
    But aren't they, GOSH, capitalist in Poland? I heard they have one of those NASTY flat taxes there.


    In Patronicum sub Siblesz

  19. #19
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecclesiastes
    I believe he meant that there are 2 seperate schools in the same building. Each have there own entrance. The one is public and the other special.
    That is correct.
    The article doesn't point is out clear enough, but there are two seperate schools: "Rietlanden" and "Montessori", both in the same building complex, but entirely seperated.

    Quote Originally Posted by wilpuri
    So what exactly is the deal, is this:

    "“For one reason or another our school had acquired a bad reputation,” headmistress Annemieke van der Groen says. “In such a case you can invest in quality as much as you like, but it is difficult to convince white parents to enroll their children here. If they come to have a look, they say ‘You know, with all these black children’ and enroll their children elsewhere.” Hence, the two entrances and different names for the same school."

    Untrue? I'm not sure I quite understood what you mean. Are there two different schools? Because here it says they are the same school.
    She is correctly quoted, but I don't beleive she is telling the truth.
    Remember she is the headmistress of the "black" Rietlanden school.
    Many people beleive her school isn't as good as the Montessori school, so she has to "defend" her school.
    I think she just plays the "race card" because she can't accept the fact that the Montessori school actually is much better than her school.

    If her school out-performes the Montessori school the tables wil turn.
    Then white parents wil enlist their children to her school, and immigrants wil be left with Montessori.

    It's realy very simple: all parents want the best for their children, but only people who know the system well enough can get it.

  20. #20
    the_mango55's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik
    That is correct.
    The article doesn't point is out clear enough, but there are two seperate schools: "Rietlanden" and "Montessori", both in the same building complex, but entirely seperated.



    She is correctly quoted, but I don't beleive she is telling the truth.
    Remember she is the headmistress of the "black" Rietlanden school.
    Many people beleive her school isn't as good as the Montessori school, so she has to "defend" her school.
    I think she just plays the "race card" because she can't accept the fact that the Montessori school actually is much better than her school.

    If her school out-performes the Montessori school the tables wil turn.
    Then white parents wil enlist their children to her school, and immigrants wil be left with Montessori.

    It's realy very simple: all parents want the best for their children, but only people who know the system well enough can get it.
    If Rietlanden were to outperform Montessori, how would the immigrants be left with Montessori? Aren't they already enrolled in Rietlanden? I hope they wouldn't kick the immigrants out of the better school to make room for the white students.
    ttt
    Adopted son of Lord Sephiroth, Youngest sibling of Pent uP Rage, Prarara the Great, Nerwen Carnesîr, TB666 and, Boudicca. In the great Family of the Black Prince

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