possible Canadian Civil War?

[Eric]

I've recently been studying the candidates for Prime Minister in the Canadian Federal Election. One goes by the name of Gilles Duceppe. He is a noterious Quebec seperatist and leader of the Bloc Quebecois. Jack Layton, NDP, would probably be the best PM but he's obviously not going to get elected because of the NDP's lack of power, Paul Martin has dug his own grave with all the scandals and no one (atleast no one I know) really likes Stephen Harper. So, with our primary political parties at this state, it is the ideal stage for Duceppe's penultimate goal, Quebec seperating from the Canadian Confederation and becoming it's own nation-state. What if he suceeded in convincing Quebec to secede? What if Federal Canadian Forces were attacked across Quebec and driven out by Seperatists? Would there be a Canadian Civil War?

[RZZZA]

Well...as an American who knows next to nothing about Canada....I can say that certainly would be surprising to pretty much everyone in the world. Canadians...abandoning reason and diplomacy for guns and war? Why...I never!

[Handsome Huss]

Well...as an American who knows next to nothing about Canada....I can say that certainly would be surprising to pretty much everyone in the world. Canadians...abandoning reason and diplomacy for guns and war? Why...I never!

But, its not Canadians..its the french... come on, I jest.

Thats the thing though, they've tried to seperate twice before and both times have failed, and the problem was solved entirely through diplomacy. There was no resorting to violence. Took a vote, and the vote failed (just barely however).
Lets say they tried again though, do you really think they would resort to violence? If they took the vote and the vote passed, they would be on their merry. Theres nothing the rest of Canada could do, because it would not go down to that level. Theres also no way that Quebec would attack the Canadian Forces. Attacking the army is attacking the country, and with no army left to defend themselves, what exactly would they do?
Kind of tired and having trouble making sense. What I'm trying to say is that Canada would not risk losing its image to the rest of the world by attacking a defenseless nation, and Quebec would not attack Canada without defenses.

[RZZZA]

Well if theres one thing Canadians are able to say its "At least we're not like the war mongering U.S.". Fight a civil war and thatll be gone my friend, all gone. Suddenly youre no better than any other country.....keep and cherish your docile and diplomatic national image...because thats rare and admirable imo.

I find it hard to believe that the french canadians will raise up arms against you though...but again, I dunno much about Canada, what exactly is the history behind this rivalry? We here in the U.S. may scoff and turn our noses up at the French, and poke a few jokes about them in our media but I dont see Americans actually wanting to exact violence on french people.

[Eric]

Well if theres one thing Canadians are able to say its "At least we're not like the war mongering U.S.". Fight a civil war and thatll be gone my friend, all gone. Suddenly youre no better than any other country.....keep and cherish your docile and diplomatic national image...because thats rare and admirable imo.

I find it hard to believe that the french canadians will raise up arms against you though...but again, I dunno much about Canada, what exactly is the history behind this rivalry? We here in the U.S. may scoff and turn our noses up at the French, and poke a few jokes about them in our media but I dont see Americans actually wanting to exact violence on french people.

It all began during the Seven Years' War, which is sometimes called the French and Indian War. It was at the great Battle of the Plains of Abraham, outside Quebec. 1759, it was the culmination of the British Siege of Quebec, Brigadier General James Wolfe led a British army ashore and decisively defeated the French forces under General Montcalm. The battle decided the fate of Canada and by the time the sun set, New France was dead. This battle was the start of all the Quebec nationalism. Ever since 1759 the Quebecois have been rather, to put it lightly, rebellious. They hate English rule. For some unfathomable reason, they think we're going to take away their independent culture and force them to become English Canadians. So, they think the only to defend their culture is to become their own nation-state. It's a situation much like the situation before the US Civil War, in which the Confederates were defending their culture and way of life against the Federals.

[LSJ]

I don't think a civil war is a possibility any year soon. Maybe 50 years from now. There aren't any militants trying to separate; it has been peaceful diplomatic polls. When more people realize it, Quebec could not survive a month alone. They have the manufacturing and minerals industry, but thats it. They would get overkill from billions of dollars of imports needed to sustain the huge population. Also with the separatists being 48% of Quebec, there isn't enough support. Since Quebec would never become even an ally with the USA, the US would help Canada quell the rebellion. It would be a short conflict, as the separatist hope runs out.

I always wondered why there are American jokes and bad ideas about the French. Without the French, the USA would not be able to stop the world's largest and most powerful navy. The English would have bombarded the ports with the siegers from Denmark, and New York would be in ruins. The costline would still be English. Sure, the Americans may have won the ground war without them, but not the high population cities and may have lost their war of independence.
Then I hear how they are cowards because of WWII. Why? They didn't surrender because they were scared. They were behind; made trenches instead of tanks, and didn't suspect an air war. They were easily destroyed because of their lack of foresight.
Then its about "Oh, you cowards! You didn't bomb civilians without reason! You are no ally of mine! From now on its freedom fries and freedom toast."
What a laugh. At least most people don't think like that.

Whenever the French are mentioned, its just a bit of time before someone says something like that about them.

A civil war in Canada... According to what I hear a lot here, I'm suprised no one called them too cowardly to rebel.

[ComradeKilroy]

But, its not Canadians..its the french... come on, I jest.

Thats the thing though, they've tried to seperate twice before and both times have failed, and the problem was solved entirely through diplomacy. There was no resorting to violence. Took a vote, and the vote failed (just barely however).
Lets say they tried again though, do you really think they would resort to violence? If they took the vote and the vote passed, they would be on their merry. Theres nothing the rest of Canada could do, because it would not go down to that level. Theres also no way that Quebec would attack the Canadian Forces. Attacking the army is attacking the country, and with no army left to defend themselves, what exactly would they do?

Well, I don't know anything about Canadian politics, but unless these seperatists are rrrrreeeeeeaaaaaaaallllyyyyy enthusiastic about their cause, i doubt they would bother with violence. They would also need a lot of support to cause anything more significant than riots.

[Scar Face]

But, its not Canadians..its the french... come on, I jest.

Thats the thing though, they've tried to seperate twice before and both times have failed, and the problem was solved entirely through diplomacy. There was no resorting to violence. Took a vote, and the vote failed (just barely however).
Lets say they tried again though, do you really think they would resort to violence? If they took the vote and the vote passed, they would be on their merry. Theres nothing the rest of Canada could do, because it would not go down to that level. Theres also no way that Quebec would attack the Canadian Forces. Attacking the army is attacking the country, and with no army left to defend themselves, what exactly would they do?
Kind of tired and having trouble making sense. What I'm trying to say is that Canada would not risk losing its image to the rest of the world by attacking a defenseless nation, and Quebec would not attack Canada without defenses.

Yea we would acctually. They won't be seen as a cute defenseless little nation. But more of terroist's anarchist seperatists bastards. Esspecially with all the american problems...bush would view it as that and give us our support. And remember there defenless we would walk in and it would be over. We might not wanna ruin our image but we have a low pop already we don't want that even lower (2nd highest pop province.) Even if we don't invade...Quebec is not rich enough in resources, doesn't have enough money or people do sustain itself. Essepically since we could boycott and raise tarrifs to our hearts content. Quebec would collapse.

EDIT: Though Candians are genually peaceful (we have to be...36 million only) there is alot of tention between the seperatists in Quebec and the rest of Canada. We are already viewd as a pathatic country. We aren't gonna let 11 million (25 million left) escape us. It would be susicide for us and Qubec. More for Qubec. Oh and btw I don't view the french as cowards. But I have a softspot for hating them because there a bunch of pathatic whiners. Ok here's there reasons for seperating. Protect our culture!!! **** U have no culture other then your language and religion. Which you aren't gonna lose your religion by boarding a english speaking nation. Same with language?!?! Where the **** do you get the idea that if they are part of Canada they will lose there language? It's a law there allowed to teach french infact in ontario we get taught it too! Wait immigrants perhaps coming in speaking english ? Oh...yes because seperating solves that. **** u Qubec **** u seperatist bastards. **** u all. I hope they do seperate and we boycott everything and they dont have enough money to survive (which they wont) and a famine breaks out. And we don't allow thme back in till a law passes in which they lose there language and religion. Just to **** them OFF! :original:

to be honest, if there was a civil war, i'd join the armed forces to invade quebec and fight the separatists! if i'm gonna shoot someone, it might as well be a frenchman

Same here. Yea it's stupid we have represntation by population. They have the 2nd highest. And they get what they want. They want to join America? Yea because there's less english there... France don't even want them. There screwd on there own...stupid Qubecois

[-=Justinian=-]

Yeah, I asked this guy if he was from Canada, and he said, " I'm not from Canada, I'm from Quebec." hahahahah
That goes to show the mentality of the people from Quebec!
A rebellion might hapen, but yeah he is right, it wouldn't last long.

[Francisco Montana]

Yeah, I asked this guy if he was from Canada, and he said, " I'm not from Canada, I'm from Quebec." hahahahah
That goes to show the mentality of the people from Quebec!
A rebellion might hapen, but yeah he is right, it wouldn't last long.

Justinian??? That name's taken already!

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/member.php?u=835

[the_mango55]

Oh those wacky cannucks, always getting into mishaps and adventures!

I actually don't know what that was about right there, just seemed like the right thing to say. Anyway, I somehow doubt that they will go to war, and I also doubt that the vote will pass. Is it a straight majority vote? And is it only Quebec or all of Canada?

But it seems that according to some on this forrum however, secesion is treason, and if Quebec were to break away from Canada they deserve to have their cities burned to the ground and their economy set back a century.

[RZZZA]

Secession may or may not be treason, but its certainly a reason for war if anything...

I dunno what america would do if Quebec decided to secede and the other Canadian provinces were gearing up for war...I bet we'd help but it would really be weird and awkward. I get all confused just thinking about it...Americans aiding Canada in a civil war against Quebec? Yeah...its weird.



So Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, etc...and Alberta and British Columbia and all the provinces in the west would be on the Canadians side and only Quebec would secede? I gotta say this is the first I'm ever hearing about provinces being close to secession in Canada. I still know nothing about Canada and I'm confused but...I gotta say at least that map is good and fun to look at....

[Hyungoku]

quebec doesnt have the ressources neccessary to survive without canada

and they most certainly do not have the ressources to go to war against them.

i live in quebec by the way

[Kinjiss]

well, there has been violence in Quebec because of this before. Any Canadians, or well informed foreigners for that matter, remember the FLQ(Front du Liberacion de Quebec), they killed a French-Canadian diplomat and kidnapped an Enlgish-Canadian diplomat, aswell as blowing up some buildings. I think it was the first time Martial Law was declared, and the military came in. Things got pretty heaty, but they cooled down once the leaders of the FLQ were caught. Anyways, our greatest PM Pierre Trudeau got some heat, but the general concensus is that he handled it well.

There is probably no way that there would be a Canadian civil war, but who knows. IF Quebec seperates(and its very possible, because there is going to be a referendum after the elections) the maritime provinces (Newfound Land, Nova Scotia, PEI, New Brunswick) are going to be effectively cut off from the rest of Canada. Who knows what will happen to them, maybe they'll seperate asweel, or maybe even join the USA.

Another thing, from what I've read is that most of the First Nation population in the northern half of Quebec would not want to seperate. The First Nations have never had very good relations with provincial governments, even out here in BC(infact BC provincial govt. is worst about that) Anyways....anyone feel free to correct me where I am wrong, my memory isnt perfect, although i did learn most of this last year.

[Fianóglach]

That would never happen. There are not Militant seperatists in Quebec anymore, the Canadian Forces presence in Quebec is primarily Reserve force, and alot of the men and women are French. It would not make any sense for a FLQ like group to go around attacking CF targets, or anybody for that matter. If they did seperate, I'm sure it would be a pretty peaceful transition, certainly there would be some violence, but nothing I would call a civil war. I'm sure there would be a flood of Anglos leaving the province to go to Alberta or Ontario, and Quebec would turn into a huge run down poorly policed ghetto state, who would beg the Canadian government for financial aid, aswell as I'm sure military and police aid. SO really nothing would change, Quebec would still be wanting handouts from the rest of the nation, but they would have their 'pride' and would have 'saved' their culture.

On my numerous trips to Montreal and Quebec city, I never got the impression French people had anythign to complain about, no tyranny, no injustice, no bigotry. I simply dont understand the seperatist movement, in the worlds most tolerant and just country, still think you are the victim of some horrible crime is beyond me. And I would know, I grew up in NI, not exactly the most peaceful and fair of places.

[Hyungoku]

i just hope steven harper doesnt win this election or we are all doing to hell

[Decimus Equitius]

If Quebec ever did seperate I believe that there would be a civil war. Border disputes would definately arise from this as the First Nations would want nothing to do with them I'm sure.

[RusskiSoldat]

I have the urge to flame someone, but will refrain from it.
Let me say one thing: there will not be a civil war in a first world country anytime soon.

[allthesedamnnamesaretaken]

the french are a very proud people (too proud imo, it's borderline obnoxious) and they feel threatened by the dominant english culture, and a lot of them have separatist wishes because they were conquered by the british. it's kind of like the resentment US southerners have or how latinos now say they want california back to mexico. the truth is, however, the french have a disproportionately large amount of representation in canadian politics and armed forces. compared to people here in the west, the government appeases them greatly and they have a lot of separate government programs exlcusive to their provinice (pensions for example). yet it's never enough and a large portion of them still want to separate and either become their own nation, become a french province, or even become a US state. it'll never be allowed though. the last time there was a crisis some diplomats died and tanks and apcs were sent to quebec and martial law was declared

to be honest, if there was a civil war, i'd join the armed forces to invade quebec and fight the separatists! if i'm gonna shoot someone, it might as well be a frenchman

[MasterAdnin]

I agree with RZZZA, it would suprise the world that the peaceful and quiet Canadians go to war, and with each other.

MasterAdnin