Correct values for armour mod.

[mAIOR]

Greetings fellow twcers. I've recently began playing this wonderful mod and I love it. However, it has some errors (from my point of view). So, I decided to correct one of them for myself and then I decided to make it available to anyone who wants it.
It's a very simple mod this one. I'll just correct the values for armour taking an EB approach. That means, through an equipment table. Now, in JRR Tolkien's world, it's not so simple as just attributing values to pieces of equipment for you have to consider the kind of material they are made from. So, I'm hopping a little feedback to see what values I should throw in.
So far, I've done Isengard and Eriador/Arnor (the factions I've played so far) and for me at least the game gets a lot better. I'll post those changes so you can judge the results by yourselves.
This is WIP mind you and I haven't adjusted the defense skills. Only armour.

I already tried to differentiate between Numenorian armour and Standard one that's why the Dunedain and some Arnor units have an extra point or two.


Check attachments for update. From now on, I'll update via attachment.


Cheers...

[AtParmentier]

nice

[mAIOR]

Updated. I take my chance to ask if you can spot any value which seems wrong and what parts of the fountain guard armour are mithril and if you think the Arnorian army should have Numenorian equipment for all units. For metal quality, I think the correct order of quality is:

Mithril>Elven/dwarven metal>Numenorian>Men (gondor normal slightly better)>isengard>orc.

What do you think?


Cheers...

[Serrow]

Updated. I take my chance to ask if you can spot any value which seems wrong and what parts of the fountain guard armour are mithril and if you think the Arnorian army should have Numenorian equipment for all units. For metal quality, I think the correct order of quality is:

Mithril>Elven/dwarven metal>Numenorian>Men (gondor normal slightly better)>isengard>orc.

What do you think?


Cheers...

Those seem about right, in my opinion.

As for Arnor's armor values, hey, if it fits their faction, it fits. Though I'm playing a mod that adds Arnorian Infantry with breastplates and better gauntlets, instead of just their usual men at arms in chainmail.

[MarKusDib]

I think it is a great idea and i´ll try this ASAP
Of course it is another point-of-view that must be considered
Great work

[mAIOR]

Well, the thing is armour quantity doesn't imply quality. I'm thinking of taking one point overall for the Isengard Uruks. I can't think on where the book says that Isengardian armour is weaker but with the speed Saruman created the army I don't suppose they gave too much attention to detais such as proper cooling and tempering, uniform weight distribution and good riveting. And a good chainmail can offer as much protection as plate armour (except of course to blunt damage). All in all, I'm thinking Arnorian units should get a bonus of sorts like better morale (after all, their kingdom was just recreated. Lots of patriotism going on) and maybe if it's fitting an extra point in armour due to high quality stuff. I have to do dale and Rohan to get the zero treshold (+0). How about Sauron's Orcs steel? Any thoughts?


Cheers...

[Point Blank]

Agreed, IMHO its appropriate for most 'evil' units to have -1 armor value representing low quality. Most bodyguards should have +1 armor for quality so for evil units that would even out to -1 +1 = 0, ie normal quality for evil bodyguards.

RC allows 'Isengard Steel' upgrade for Uruk units only upon completion of Isengard Forge.

[Jaujon]

That's the kind of gameplay improvement I was waiting for. Highly supporting it!

[mAIOR]

small update in which I further detailed armour composition. Gondor soldiers are turning out to be total tanks :o. They'll have to be very expensive. And all that armour will hinder their combat effectiveness (ie defense skill) since we're looking at around 10Kg to 15Kg for the mail hauberk plus the odd 20Kg for the remaining items (considering a 3mm plate thickness). Unless I consifer that the mail is only there to cover uncovered parts like the arms and groins. What do you think? that'd lower their armour overall but also their price.
I have doubts regarding what kind of steel should I give to Swan knights. I gave them high quality because I don't recall if they were equipped with Numenorian stile armour...



Cheers...

[Point Blank]

Some RC system info attached for your interest, note this is for 1.4 and is being updated for 2.x etc...

[mAIOR]

Some RC system info attached for your interest, note this is for 1.4 and is being updated for 2.x etc...

Thanks mate. It's more or less the rules I was already following same some exceptions. And it'll be useful for the weapons balancing Cheers!!
Were this files in your mod already?

Skimming through it, the added defence value against arrows given by plate should be added to the shield in my opinion (since shield counts 2X against arrows) and the spear should have a higher defence value than a sword. It needed less skill to be wielded properly and an average spearman could keep a good swordsman at bay with ease. spears were nasty!!
EDIT: scratch my opinion, this system of adding to the defence skill works better. Still I believe the partial plate gives too much armour. It shouldn't give the same ammount as an heavy mail hauberk. It covers less.

On another note:
Does this mean you got your laptop files in order?


Cheers...

[Point Blank]

EDIT: scratch my opinion, this system of adding to the defence skill works better. Still I believe the partial plate gives too much armour. It shouldn't give the same ammount as an heavy mail hauberk. It covers less.

On another note:
Does this mean you got your laptop files in order?


Cheers...

Partial plate refers to armor that is a mix of heavy mail and plate armor, so coverage still remains complete.

You may be thinking of Renaissance Half Plate or Three-Quarter Plate.

Hope to get laptop back in a day or 2

[mAIOR]

Partial plate refers to armor that is a mix of heavy mail and plate armor, so coverage still remains complete.

You may be thinking of Renaissance Half Plate or Three-Quarter Plate.

Hope to get laptop back in a day or 2

Ok. Now I see what you mean and yes I was thinking of Half Plate (like those merchants from Eriador Have). Still, I like individually assigning values to objects that way one can "mess around" a bit more.



Cheers...

[mAIOR]

OK. Small update. revamped the factions already made since I arrived to the conclusion that I couldn't overhaul just the armour. the whole stats have to be changed. Thanks to point blank kindly shared files (to which I made only slight alterations) my work is greatly cut out. Since I'm between exams, I won't post an update (albeit a very small one) until the end of this week.



Cheers...

[mAIOR]

Another small update. Revamped the entire Isengard roster (except Wargs) in what'll become the standard fashion. Every stat is changed.
Tell me what you think.


Cheers...

[Chees3]

How do i go about adding these changes to my game?Are these changes save game compatible?

[mAIOR]

I haven't changed any files yet. If you want them, open the export_descr_unit.txt and change the values. Right now, I'm merely changing numbers (with a few rules) and see how that feels. Then I'll implement them, and then I'll mess around with them a bit more to correct under/over powered units not really deserving of that status. I'm proud of the way the Uruk raiders seem to be going. I always saw them as a kind of handy light infantry capable of tackling bigger foes from the flanks. Not some poor old ragged up bunch as they are now.
Isengard is lacking the guards of Orthanc and the Warg riders. After that, I'll start the other I've done. After, I'll do the others. It'll take a bit of time but for me, it's worth it.


Cheers...

[alreadyded]

I believe Isengard's armor (for their better troops at least) was decent quality. I would imagine Saruman is capable of learning and implementing some of the forgotten metallurgy techniques from back in the day. And his army wasn't thrown together overnight like the movies sort of suggests. It states in the books that it had been a lifetime of Men since anyone set foot in Isengard, which means Saruman was probably up to no good all that time. I would say -1 to all Orcs except the Uruk-hai and maybe some of the Uruks as they would probably get the best there is to offer. Nice idea by the way, how is it affecting the overall balance of the game? Such as autoresolved battles for the AI?

[mAIOR]

Haven't tried it in game yet (lots of rl work) but even though his army wasn't raised in a single day, he had working for them evil men and orcs. The enchantments in Elvish or Numenorian should be impossible for them to repeat. Saruman gave a few of them his own enchantments but unless someone creates another unit with "the power of the white hand" behind it, I doubt better armour would be given. I had a bit of an indecision whether to give them a penalty or make them standard (like Rohan). For now, they'll rest as it is and I'll do the other factions. Once they are done, I can see for the finer details.



Cheers...

[Point Blank]

Nice way to approach things. The only issue I can see is with armor upgrades only applying 2 points of armor per upgrade, but you can get around that as follows:

armor_upgrade 5, 6, 6, 6

would apply 3 armor upgrades at once, ie 6 points of armor, in a single upgrade