Which faction(s) need a revamp on unit roster?

[Polycarpe]

Good day everyone. Myself and RollingWave are revamping several factions in SS. I'm asking you which factions need that, why, and give suggestions based on historical info as much as you can.

[Jambat]

I voted for the Crusader States, but only after thinking for a moment between them and Scotland. I just find the CS needs a bit more depth, perhaps focusing on the non-Knightly aspect of things down there, to give them a hand. In all of my games the CS are always the first faction to be eliminated, and the game I tried with them I ended up stopping because I found myself wanted more options after playing in the mess that is Iberia.

[DedBludUK]

SRy for error. My computers fault. My reply is below

[DedBludUK]

I cant vote for some reason. But anyway, i think that the muslim factions should be the next thing to seriously go over. Throughout SS and other mods they seem to be left out of revamping and the focus is always on european factions. The european factions get new textures, new units, and so on, yet the muslim factions get a new flag, and maybe another unit or two. They all have pretty much the same textures from the rather unhistorical vanilla game.

The idea that all, or pretty much all, units in muslim factions had light armour and had to rely on speed and agility is a bit of a myth. The Broken Crescent mod (i think thats what its called) has got the right idea and has given them more historicaly correct textures and armour. Yes the desert heat and so on meant they couldnt wear as much armour as their european counterparts, but they still wore armour beyong cloth, leather and a chest of maile. There are some units that get the correct armour but much much later on. Berber spearmen etc yeh, shouldnt get mail, but alot of the muslim faction armies were wearing lamelar and mail. the dismounted muslim cavalry armour becomes the standard for their armies but it went beyond that i think.
EDIT: My Vote is for Egyptians
revamping the muslim factions for once, would make me play them for once. always want to know that as soon as it gets to later medieval, i'll just be squashed under my enemies plate armour. Plus knowng all the changes in looks etc for european armies makes battles look better, i'll play muslim factions and feel like im playing vanilla.

[cezarip]

I cant vote for some reason...

I guess you need more posts. 25 if I'm right!

I voted for Scotland. When I'm playing them I always have the feeling is all Braveheart again.

[TheBard]

I agree with DedBludUK. I meant to vote for the Moors, but accidentally voted for Portugal. As Portugal, I've felt like the Moors are quite underpowered. They were supposed to be the preeminent force in Spain for hundreds of years. One problem is that they don't always get (or use?) Grenadine Lancers. When I played as Aragon, the Moors actually defeated me using lots of Grenadine Lancers. But as Portugal, I've never had to face them. Maybe they should always get them, regardless of city?

[Abyrvalg]

I'd say Scotland, but afaik BG already revamped them in his mod.
Turks then. Vanilla units are terrible.

[Ichon]

I's also say Scotland needs the most changes. A weird mix between Picts, Braveheart, and Gaelic folktales. However I know OP is working on them already.

Following that I know already some of the changes Rolling Wave has done for Moors, Lithuania, and some others. Remaining Muslim factions and Sicily could probably use the most work in my opinion.

Similar to how Moors used Christians the early Kingdom of Sicily under Normans and later Frederik HRE employed many Saracens in the armies. Right now only Muslim archers are depicted but there should be some more early professional units. As time passes and more professional units arise those Muslim units should eventually disappear as Christianity displaced Islam but up until 1300s Sicily and S Italy still had large Muslim population.

Many factions have also have 1 or 2 fantasy units... England with Sherwood bowmen, Lithuania and some guesses about Temple troops, etc. CS, filled with that as well.

[Polycarpe]

I did a serious change for Scotland but I have to work with the stuff I've in hands, I don't have enough skills right now to new model and textures but later I'll probably do it.

[Bruce the Silver-Tongued]

I did a serious change for Scotland but I have to work with the stuff I've in hands, I don't have enough skills right now to new model and textures but later I'll probably do it.

I know RollingWave has seen it, but have you seen the work that SicilianVespers has done for the Scottish faction? Utterly and completely, hands-down BA. Most of the units are for a time period prior to the earliest era in SS, but you may as well take a look if you haven't already.

[Abyrvalg]

BG, what do you (and RW) think about Magyar Mod?
Their conditions for using their work might be strict a bit, but quite reasonable if what you are going for is historical accuracy.
And their roster is as brilliant as CBUR or Rusichi or Tsardoms units.

[Largon]

I voted for the Cumans. They really need a better roster. It would be much more fun playing them. (I gave them a try)

[Marcvs Antonivs]

Definetely Scotland. Why the heck do they still have skirts and kilts? why hasn't someone reskinned them yet?

[Abyrvalg]

Why the heck do they still have skirts and kilts? why hasn't someone reskinned them yet?

Apparently people discovered only now that real scots were not like those Braveheart guys.

[Asterix]

Apparently people discovered only now that real scots were not like those Braveheart guys.

....they're not??

[newt]

What did they look like? I can find no pics and apparently their army was mostly Gaelic, which means skirts and kilts.

(feel free to prove me wrong)

[Jambat]

What did they look like? I can find no pics and apparently their army was mostly Gaelic, which means skirts and kilts.

(feel free to prove me wrong)

IIRC, the kilt didn't really come around until the 1600-1700s. They wore long léine clothing which had a very skirt/kilt-like look over the legs that may have led to the confusion.

[Gorrrrrn]

more an across the board suggestion - cut out the distinction between militia and levy troops (esp spears and archers) - make a single type available in towns and castles.
never found any evidence to support the distinction (one can rationalise it but seems little historical support)
remove professional longbowmen en tout. apart from mercs (free company)(which should be kept) few if any longbowmen made their entire / full-time living from being a longbowman.
AI doesn't understand the distinction - and I expect a lot of human players find it odd and confusing too.

[newt]

remove professional longbowmen en tout. apart from mercs (free company)(which should be kept) few if any longbowmen made their entire / full-time living from being a longbowman.

Can you elaborate? Remove all longbowmen except mercs?

[Hatch]

The thing about the long bow is that it requires Yew wood, which was only found in abundance in England. Once you control enough of England you ought to be able to create longbowmen, or at least advance your archery units to use them.