Turkish Power

[alsarmander]

I changed some things in the game

First.

I added the Kervansaray(Caravanserai) to Turks.You can see information in the links.

http://www.turkeytravelplanner.com/a...vanserais.html

http://www.allaboutturkey.com/silkroad.htm

Second

I changed all Sipahis recruitment building it is now farms historically.

Third

I changed bows's accuracy(all bows) Archer can kill knights few more

Fourth

Some Ottoman Units power increased but their recruitment time increased(Quapukulu(5 turns),all Sipahis,Janissaries,Ottoman infantry,Hasham,iqta,....)Changements for elite soldiers only.Sipahi troops cheap but others generally costly

Not:I use 6.4 and no RR


Here is the link
http://www.filefront.com/17816709/Turks.rar

[Ichon]

How much did you change bows accuracy? And what level of farms Sipahis? Level 2 farms 1 Sipahis, level 3 gives 2 Sipahis etc?

[Ferdiad]

I changed some things in the game

First.

I added the Kervansaray(Caravanserai) to Turks.You can see information in the links.

http://www.turkeytravelplanner.com/a...vanserais.html

http://www.allaboutturkey.com/silkroad.htm

Second

I changed all Sipahis recruitment building it is now farms historically.

Third

I changed bows's accuracy(all bows) Archer can kill knights few more

Fourth

Some Ottoman Units power increased but their recruitment time increased(Quapukulu(5 turns),all Sipahis,Janissaries,Ottoman infantry,Hasham,iqta,....)Changements for elite soldiers only.Sipahi troops cheap but others generally costly

Not:I use 6.4 and no RR


Here is the link
http://www.filefront.com/17816709/Turks.rar

You know Janissaries are already extremely good and the Turks are kinda OP already.

[newt]

With this Dismounted Sipahi Lancers are now available in cities,large cities and huge cities along with fortresses and citadels. Plus you increased availability and lowered upkeep.

And your horse archers have better/equal range than most longbows, you gave them more defense and lowered upkeep. Not to mention Sipahis have ap with this mod.


You should also mention you increased the power of the ME bodyguard and increased all bodyguard hitpoints from 1 to 2.

Have fun with your overpowered faction.

[Polycarpe]

Well lad, you increase the strength of a faction that is already one of the strongest in the game (even if it's a vanilla roster). Do a serious review on it, they don't need to be buffed. Wait for RollingWave roster instead.

[Ferdiad]

Its nationalistic modding

[alsarmander]

I did not change only powers I change numbers of them.Quapukulu's number is 24 lancers 40.sipahisavailable from farms it s historical you can search it it is the timar system in the Seljuks and ottoman empire.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROrkV5OmlvE in this link with the last scene you can see the ap power of sipahis...

I can write much more but I do not have time right now I changed them historically.

[Ferdiad]

Some Ottoman Units power increased but their recruitment time increased(Quapukulu(5 turns),all Sipahis,Janissaries,Ottoman infantry,Hasham,iqta,....)Changements for elite soldiers only.Sipahi troops cheap but others generally costly

I did not change only powers I change numbers of them

No, you made them OP and you made their bows like homing missiles

[alsarmander]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_longbow#Shooting_rate I do not know this information is true or not.Longbow range is like 200 meters.

http://www.archery.metu.edu.tr/sitetr/histta01.html with this link You can see range(800-900 meters).

What can I do man with this information.?

And Other changes about like Sipahi troops were main army of the Empire.They were so usefull because they were cheap.Their number with the Kanuni like 165.000 but they were used in the battles only.Normally they were used for farming and training.When the situation arises they were the main army of the empire.

janissaries were costly soldiers.Their duty is only became soldier.They were so elite but costly.So their numbers were few.Quapukulus number with Kanuni Sultan Suleyman is like 7000.but then system was corrupted.Sipahis number is decreased like 30000 but Quapukulus number increased 50000.

So I prepare this with this informations.I do not know what can I say.My main duty is historical realities for every nations.

Unit recruitment time is increased for every Janissaries for 5 turns so for other units.Maybe I geve them some much power.But I made it for reality.

[Ichon]

200m vs 900m is not a good comparison. That is comparing the normal effective range of longbow to near max range of medieval composite bow. Composite bow could shoot further than longbow and had greater max effective range but it probably should be more like 150m vs 250m when shooting larger war arrows capable of piercing multiple layers of protections. Just to hunt or wound unarmored things then range can be greater but velocity goes down further away due to friction and gravity(drag).

Also those long ranges aren't aimed- just let loose mass volley and hope some arrows land in a certain area. I like the idea of Sipahis to farms and main soldiers of Ottomans but remember this is more Seljuk Turks first and Ottomans 2nd due to timeline.

[PerXX]

Well, the Turkish had specific Flight Bows&Arrows specifically designed for long range flight.
Bear in mind that an average flight arrow weighed around 190 grains, while the arrows used with the Longbows would weigh 1000+ grains.
So, while the Turkish Flight arrows had far superior range, they would have little to no effect on anyone wearing an remotely decent armor, at those ranges.

[King of the Ring]

200m vs 900m is not a good comparison. That is comparing the normal effective range of longbow to near max range of medieval composite bow. Composite bow could shoot further than longbow and had greater max effective range but it probably should be more like 150m vs 250m when shooting larger war arrows capable of piercing multiple layers of protections. Just to hunt or wound unarmored things then range can be greater but velocity goes down further away due to friction and gravity(drag).

Also those long ranges aren't aimed- just let loose mass volley and hope some arrows land in a certain area. I like the idea of Sipahis to farms and main soldiers of Ottomans but remember this is more Seljuk Turks first and Ottomans 2nd due to timeline.

shooting up in the air and let the gravity do the force job would improve the effectiveness of lowly bows

i'd say a 45+ degree angle is enough combined with solid arrows

[Ichon]

shooting up in the air and let the gravity do the force job would improve the effectiveness of lowly bows

i'd say a 45+ degree angle is enough combined with solid arrows

Enough for what? Pierce armor or get more range? When release an arrow at 45 degree the arrow has the energy from the bow propelling it, air friction and gravity work against it slowing the velocity- arrow reaches the maximum height it will attain and begins to fall- at this point most of the velocity from bow is lost, the energy of flight is now coming from ballistic characteristics of the arrow and gravity (+ negligible amount from possible tailwind)- in general gravity doesn't come close to replacing the energy of the bow that initially propelled the arrow. Arrow leaving bow at 75 meters per second will not attain that speed at its terminal velocity because of light weight and drag. A bullet terminal velocity even with light weight is about 90 m/s but a bullet has very little drag even in proportion to its weight. I've read that most wood arrows fall at about 45 m/s which is still enough to kill a person but just barely- even some layers of cloth would be more than enough stop penetration of an arrow at that speed.

The initial velocity the arrow leaves a bow and the weight of the arrow and the fletching determine most of the penetration power. Weaker bow made for hunting could loose an arrow at half the initial velocity of a heavier bow on a lighter arrow. The bow thus have less distance and power but also quite less training to use. Militarily that would mean larger unit size perhaps (training time for accuracy is still substantial) but far lower range and usefulness against armor. A powerful bow with a light arrow would achieve higher velocity but the momentum would be less as the arrow weighs less and drag is about the same but gravity is less- so heavy arrow begins to fall to the ground much earlier but retains much more speed at the same time. To compensate for the drop archers firing heavier arrows have to be trained more intensively as for every 50 meters they have to aim about 10 degrees higher. So to achieve 200 meters with heavy bow and arrow archer would need to aim about 45 degrees, higher ranges were possible but would require lighter arrow or higher degrees which is why I'd guess max ranges for arrows are typically referred to in the 200-300 range. The main advantage of all that extra training and immense strength to draw a bow capable of sending a heavy arrow 250 meters is that the momentum is enough to penetrate most armor short of plate at close range and still many armors even at longer ranges. The velocity due to heavier arrow declines less quickly so a heavy arrow at 100 meters might still be going 80% of its initial speed while a lighter arrow would be going 70% of its initial speed. Flight arrows are so called because they are lighter, stiffer arrows that can attain about +30% faster initial speed which even if it loses 30% vs 20% speed had such a higher starting velocity that the distance the arrow covers is much further. IE 90 m/s in 4 seconds covers 300 meters. A heavier arrow fired at 80 m/s would travel about 250 meters in same time and would be falling to earth much more quickly. So the flight arrow achieves much greater range at the cost of momentum.

Some medieval tactics preferred such lighter arrows but longer ranges (technically the skill is a bit greater to hit something at very long range with a lighter arrow but the drop of heavier arrows is also a technical skill). Records indicate that the Turks and Persians of 1100-1200s preferred a bit lighter arrows than later Mongols but by Ottoman era were using heavier arrows. Personally I think it was probably a bit of style but also in response to better armor worn by more people that arrows trended heavier. Ottomans still had fascination with extreme ranges into the 1600s.

[Cyprexinia]

shooting up in the air and let the gravity do the force job would improve the effectiveness of lowly bows

i'd say a 45+ degree angle is enough combined with solid arrows

This wouldn't always work, Myth busters did this with guns, firing into the air to see if speed picks up on impact and it does not. Arrows would prolly coast and after a while in the air start to wobble and weave until they hit whatever it is they hit which wouldn't even be close to what you were aiming for.

[valky]

This wouldn't always work, Myth busters did this with guns, firing into the air to see if speed picks up on impact and it does not. Arrows would prolly coast and after a while in the air start to wobble and weave until they hit whatever it is they hit which wouldn't even be close to what you were aiming for.

Exactly this won't happen. Take a look at some projectiles (primarily handheld guns), they are small and don't necessary are built to have a stabilizer of some sort, even if that would be only the length. IMO 9mm guns are the worst; very short projectiles (or diameter is nearly the same as the bullet's length).
So if you'd fire such a bullet into the air, it's most likely to start twisting/turning and stuff after it passed the turning point.

Some arrows on the other hand are designed to avoid this, depending on the angle they are fired at though. Oddly, the 'flying' arrows were designed to be fired at like 35-45° and their goal was just to cover a huge area and to accidentally find weakspots. (Bodkin was only used for direct line of fire, English longbow-archers had several different arrows for ranged/close-quarter shooting)
Though if you'd fire higher than that angle, then the same would happen like in your mentioned Mythbusters experiment; only that the arrow would still maintain kind of a flying curve, but the impact would even bounce on the lightest armor.

I'd also argue, that an arrow fired straight @90° into the air will surely kill you, cause it will have a perfect flight after it is object of the gravitional force, cause it will always have the arrowhead pointed towards earth, while the bullet already started spinning and whatever else.

[while playing robin hood in my youth, arrows fired that way in the air, easily penetrated frozen earth..newer arrows are designed to be much lighter, so they shouldn't kill you but medieval ones]

[alsarmander]

Yes I agree with you about the range Ottoman Composite bows should be best so I changed their range for Janissaries 250 not 1000 I gave them ap you can see it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROrkV5OmlvE with this video.

SS 6.4 is not realistic for muslim factions.Best cavalry is in the europe,best archers in the europe,best infantries Janissaries but with the number it is not historical Janissaries number always low in the ottoman army but they were like terminator.Their only aim is to figt.I liked 6.1 and 6.2 unit stats because When you command the army with the true way you can win.But with the 6.3 and 6.4 Why I choose the Muslim factions.Byzantium has great cavalries but I can not killl them wit the spearmens.

So I want to discuss about the spearmens.They are like a peasent.Even the Pike mens could not win against Lancers.

[PerXX]

Yes I agree with you about the range Ottoman Composite bows should be best so I changed their range for Janissaries 250 not 1000 I gave them ap you can see it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROrkV5OmlvE with this video.

You misunderstood then. While the flight arrows had a long range, their low weight would mean that they transfered very little kinetic energy to the target. They wouldn't be much use against an even slightly armored target. They should have 1-2 attack most, and definitely no armor piercing. No bows were truly armor piercing, even if a lucky shot, at the correct angle, at close range might penetrate shortly into a metal sheet.
Keep in mind, that plate armor wouldn't be the only armor a knight would wear. There'd be padding, and chain mail underneath the plate armor.

Obviously the turks used other bows than the flight bows, that would have more impact, like the one you show in the video. It's either a heavier shot with more impact(Longbows, Warbows ect.), or a lighter shot, with more range (Flight bows).

[newt]

That arrow will not kill a man. They have thick pads under the armor so the arrow will not penetrate. If you have problems with the units, ask questions here.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1397

This person created the stats.

Also, this arrow was shot from 20 meters away. it penetrated the same amount as the Turkish bow, but the man was not hurt.

[Gogolometro]

Good point Newt. I know from history what does mean arrows here were battles implicate tatars/mongols, cumans, hungarians, bulgarians, turks and romanian principates. Mounted archers was like logistic killers, and all these guys use them. Add to this the Wallachia and Moldavia was almost all middle ages covered with forrests and lot of animals good for hunt, so a lot of archers. Still, even was a good core of HA in moldovian and wallachian army, a lot of archers, the soldiers who won versus turks especially was armored and unfoot. The big damage turks add here was janissaries heavy infantry, not their archers.

[seriousgigi]

i agree with alsarmander, even late area (6.4), also turkish soldiers are bad quality. This mod made by ultranationalist people from europe because of european kingdoms are overpowered. exp ordinary european halbert soldier has 8 17 6 but sultan's best soldier has 10 13 6. this is .ullshit guys these .ucking janisseries kicked your ass throughout centuries... where is the point? in crusade times, any european soldier was scared at french knights but french knights also were scared at turkish cavalary just read objective things on history... sorry my bad english.