Gendarmes vs. Chivalric Knights?

[Kekster]

Quick question from someone who hasn't played this game in a few years and is now coming back to it:

In my Spain campaign I am now at a point where I can build both Gendarmes and Chivalric Knights. Looking at their stats it seems to me that the knights are better in almost every way, yet they cost less upkeep (although with higher recruitment cost). Is there any reason to be using Gendarmes at all if I can pick between the two? What I found with some digging through the web is that Gendarmes have "Mailed Horses" while the knights have "Barded Horses" but I couldn't figure out what that means gameplay wise. Does it affect their speed/charge? If so, which one is better? Thanks in advance for any replies.

[nhinhonhinho]

Gendarmes with "Mailed Horses" are tougher (again missile fire) i think since their type or armor are better than Chivalric knights

It's depend on your situation and faction when choosing between Gendarmes and Chivalric Knights.

Playing as Spain. Chivalric Knights can be a better choice since you get them far earlier and later the maximum pool of Chivalric Knights are 9 (3 from Citadel and 6 from the latest stable) while Gendarmes are 6. Their replenish rate also higher (1.1 compare to 0.7) and Knights have lower upkeep. They cost more but in long term they're better. Beside that Chivalric Knights are stronger than Gendarmes.

Playing as France however Gendarmes are better since they appear with French Mounted Archer

Personally I prefer Gendarmes in late game simply because the number of Citadel are always fewer than Huge City and Cities made money. In some area like Italy there're no castles so Gendarmes are the best cavalry there. The other reason is in Huge City you have the access to gunners, Tercios and swordsman

[Lennert]

The reason Gendarmes are better resistant to missile fire is because the armor portion in their defence stat is higher. Their type of horse has nothing to do with it.

Only considering armor types effective against missiles, we have the following:

Gendarmes: 11 armor (effective against missiles from all sides but is halved for AP fire)
Chivalric knights: 8 armor, 4 shield (effective against fire from the front, halved for flanks and ignored for back)

So, in case of regular arrow fire from the front, Chivalric Knights have slightly better protection. Their total effective defence would amount to 12, against 11 for Gendarmes. Regular fire from the flanks would be in favor of the Gendarmes, who still have 11 defence against 10 for the knights. Though AP fire from the flanks would in turn favor the knights. Fire from the back will always be in favor of the Gendarmes.

[PrestigeX]

I would say the main benefit of the Gendarmes is that they are recruited in cities, so with the two factions that use them - france and spain, you can pair them with pikemen which you'd have at around the same time. And ofcourse whatever missile troop you like - also from the city. They are no where near as versatile as Chivalric knights.

[Mik528]

And to add to the above post by Lennert I'm pretty sure the Chivalric Knight's armour can be upgraded via a high tech tree blacksmith where as the Gendarme is stuck at 11. So if fully upgraded the Chivalric Knight will be 9 armour 4 shield which is a total of 13. Go Knight if you have access to armourys but Gendarmes are useful to quickly buy if an enemy is sneaking on a undefended Huge City.

[The Source]

what about lancers vs chilvaric knights
or
gendermes vs conqisters vs chiviric

[Mik528]

Lancers all the way their armour bonus is far superior not to mention theyre a sexy unit

[Lennert]

Explain to me what's "far superior" to Lancers armor compared to Gendarmes..

Both units have 11 armor points... Lancers have one, whole point extra in defence skill, that's it..

Only real strength the Lancers have is their powerfull charge, but they aren't exactly unique in that respect either..

Heavy cav units that are really good imho are Polish Guard, Gothic knights and Knights Hospitaller. Polish Guard have everything Lancers have, except that they have the very_hardy trait (just hardy for Lancers) which is extremely usefull for heavy cavalry. Gothic Knights have decent stats overall but their real strength lies in the fact that they have an AP secondary weapon(other units meet these criteria too though, like Khan's Guard and Qapukulu). Knights Hospitaller allready start with high stats and can get 2 armor upgrades on top of that, nice.

[Mik528]

Explain to me what's "far superior" to Lancers armor compared to Gendarmes..

Both units have 11 armor points... Lancers have one, whole point extra in defence skill, that's it..

Only real strength the Lancers have is their powerfull charge, but they aren't exactly unique in that respect either..

When comparing them it is a big difference. If a Lancer's stats of attack and defence are higher than the Gendarme then it is a superior unit. Also the Lancer has a stronger melee attack with their close ranged sword as well as higher morale. It's close but Lancer > Gendarme and are therefore superior.

Edit: My mistake in the armour bonus. I meant that for the Chivalric Knight in my last post.

[Lennert]

Yes, it's offensive prowess, skill and morale on which Lancers beat Gendarmes, not armor.

[Mik528]

Yea I meant that post on armour for the Chivalric Knight as I said

[eggthief]

Just to point out, Lennert, shield only defends the left flank. Also, the french "elite" cavalry aren't worth the cash, they usually come available in a time when AP units are pretty much available to anyone which is pretty much a bottomless hole for your florins. They have a powerful charge, that is the only thing I can hand to them, beyond that I'd much rather spend my florins on teutonic knights, which are imo the best overall cavalry unit, stats wise.

[D00d]

Just to point out, Lennert, shield only defends the left flank.

That's an myth originating from RTW. In reality, the shield protects both flanks equally. Whoever doesn't believe it is welcome to test it. I have, and I'm positive there is no less protection from the right flank.

[... where did it run?]

RTW - shield both flanks. Shield is doubled from front. And only 6/10 of armor value defence from the back. Making attack direction very importnat factor ( I miss this in med II )

About Gendarmes - I personaly found that they suck. And suck badly, for 320 upkeep cost they require. Only good thing about them is that they can be recruited from cities.

Lancers - like them. Nice charagers. Polish guards are nice also, but .. faction are balanced in diffrent ways. For example, you can't have scots guard as poland. Or HA with AP arrows. Also, important thing to say about 11 armor cavalry. You do not stay in prolonged melee with cavalry. If you do - you do it wrong, unless after a charge only 10~15 men left in the unit. As any charging cavalry, once you hit you need to turn back.. run turn again and charge whats left. Now while you are turning away from the enemy unit your cav is the most vurnable. In here, the all around armor defence counts !

Lancers vs Chivalrics.. I would go with lancers. Well I like how lancers looks. Plus Lancers got Armored horses, thus having more mass. As I assume they charge trough untis better than chivalrics.

Gendarmes vs Chivalrics - Chivalrics definatly.

Oh and I love Tsars guards most as Heavy Cav <3

[Lennert]

No, in Med 2 shields cover both flanks.

Regarding heavy cav, I usually divide them in 2 categories. "Chargers" with the typical melee attack/charge stats of 13/8 and a high armor portion in their defence and "Brawlers" with a AP secondary, high defence skill and often a shield. The best chargers are Polish Guard, the best brawlers would be Qapukulu. The only faction that has real hybrids between these categories is the HRE, of which indeed Teutonic knights are the best ones. I agree it is an awsome unit!

[Lennert]

I don't agree with you entirely about never using heavy cav. in prolonged melee. With good brawlers, like Qapukulu, using them to catch chargers in melee and keep them there while you charge them with another unit of cavalry is an effective way to kill enemy cav. This only works for cav vs cav ofcourse, against infantry you should always hit and run. As I have pointed out in another thread you can even use Dvor cav to counter enemy heavy cav by catching them in melee.

I love Tsars guard aswell btw, but that's mostly because they are in the same unit roster with Dvor and Boyar sons. You can make some freakishly effective cav armies with those units.

[Om noml]

Don't quote me on this (someone will quote me now.)
I believe that having more armor on gendarmes generates more mass.
More mass = heavier charge, no? Anyways, Gendarmes and Chivalric Knights are pretty much the same in principle, but I believe Chivalric knights have more advantages.
I honestly don't believe the charge difference would be enough to justify the faults of the gendarmes.

[The Source]

the charge is what is says on the unit card

[... where did it run?]

So then why charge between 6 charge having infantry and 6 charge having cavalry is so diffrent? It's not all about the numbers you see in the infocard.

[Mik528]

Cavalry have the trait Power Charge which makes it more deadly. Most units armed with a lance will have this trait making their charge the charge we all see.