So.. uh... mordor population help, please?

[Wyrmnax]

I have been playng with mordor on my 1st TATW game.

Well, right now im screwed.

I captured everything east of the river, and keep West Osgiliath and Cairn Andros fortified against the incursions from Gondor. It costs me a lot to keep those places supplied and troops retrained, especially now that gondor seems hellbent on sieging and waiting the full duration to take me down, so im forced on open siege battles against 2-3 armies every time. The only 2 Nazgul that i have left are holding the cities, and they make all the difference avoiding them being overrun.

Anyway, i have been holding Gondor so far, but im making no progress on that front.


Now i realized that Harad ( The southern ally ) lost 2 of his port cities to gondor. So either i dispatch troops there or he is going to buckle.

And the Sylvan elves decided to start pushing down. They have pretty much everything that isnt initial Rhun area on the east side of the mountains. Cirith Ungol has been theirs forever, but they now decided to come down to the castle south of it. I am in no position to force them back - pretty much all i have is tied with gondor, and i really do not have the numbers needed to hit them. They just decimate Orcs and Uruks in both melee and range.



Anyway, if the elves come down south to the black gate it is game over for me. Not even gonna mention the dwarves.


Now, im starting to plan for a new game, as this one seems doomed.

I realized that my biggest problem as Mordor is that i simply do not have enough money. All my cities have all economic/growth buildings, with only 3 cities building unit production. Yet, they all have very small or even negative growth, even with low taxes. East Osgiliath has been mine forever, and i just captured West Osgiliath. West has 50% more population than East, and as soon as i captured it got negative growth ( -1.5% if im not wrong ). They start small, giving very little money and their growth rate is *very* small compared to everyone else.

Even the Elves have more population growth than i do, i believe.

How do you guys deal with this issue?

[Muffer Nl]

This is due to the balancing in the game. Try to get your governors to get positive traits and reduce squalor by upgrading cities as fast as possible. It is also easier to defend the bridge in between the Osgiliaths than the city especially when you ave siege units in your army. Also try to use invasions as much as possible.

[Raiven]

Elves have Cirit Ungol, you are not making mistake here? If so, then you are already dead.

You can try to lower difficulty, if this is first time you play the game. (TATW is much more difficult than vanilla). Maybe try to play High elves, they are the most easiest faction, to catch the game play.

Mordors economy can be tricky, in my campaign I left Mirkwood and concentrate on pushing back Gondor. Once you take Minas-thirith things start to go your way. Once Gondor falls you have won it all.

[Wyrmnax]

Elves have Cirit Ungol, you are not making mistake here? If so, then you are already dead.

You can try to lower difficulty, if this is first time you play the game. (TATW is much more difficult than vanilla). Maybe try to play High elves, they are the most easiest faction, to catch the game play.

Mordors economy can be tricky, in my campaign I left Mirkwood and concentrate on pushing back Gondor. Once you take Minas-thirith things start to go your way. Once Gondor falls you have won it all.

Ope.

Elves have Mirkwood. Wrong place, still full of spiders.

Actually, elves have everything from the forests up to the mountains, where the dwarvens still lie.

Mountains are infested by dwarves, i tell you!


Anyway, West Osgiliath was the first step to try to push into Gondor. I feel that i must do them some damage quickly before their economy overwhelm me. They are #1 in production and money, while Sylvans are #1 in military might.

Like i said, hope the elves will be content just picking off a settlement, if they decide to end the game i have no chance...

[jinjo]

which turn are u now?

[Ariaci]

Mordor is the only faction that I have not played. Played all the others quite a few times.

Regarding city growth and economics, normally I play VH/VH. Only TATW I play on H/VH....... My personal opinion is that otherwise the AI has a to big advangement in city growth and income. I know it is ment to be played on VH/VH but.....i like it this way better.....

Maybe this is also more to your liking.

[brasswire]

I guess if you're barely holding out against Gondor and are starting to come under pressure from the Silvans, then you could try for a "hail mary" seige attack on Minas Tirith. If it doesn't work, well, you were probably dead anyway. If it does work then it will be tremendously helpful, huge blow to Gondor. Minas Tirith has a ridiculous economy, and the trade income there can be up to 10 times the amount you would get in a normal city, so it could be a major boost to your pocketbook as well.

Just hope that Isengard is faring better against Rohan otherwise you could end up seeing stacks of Rohirrim coming down to help free Minas Tirith.

[Ngugi]

then you could try for a "hail mary" seige attack on Minas Tirith.

Lovely!

A basic principle is that a standing army is an economic black hole (this is an IRL historic truth too), you'll need to use them to pay for them.

A strategy is to take E.Ost. and use as small forces possible to hold the bridge to W.Ost., a larger force to defend C. Andros and your largest force to:
1) join and assult side by side by Harad trough the south.
2) eat, from the east side, on Rohan (hammer and anvil)
3) make "master use" of your nazgul cavalry vs SE, and then join Rhûn bring Dale down.

Though, this require perhaps such a intentional plan from the beginnig of the game.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Perhaps trolls are the answer (aren't trolls always the answer?)

I think you've gotten good advice above: Idle armies are money-sucks. Concentrate your offensive power in one place at a time. Defend at bridges where possible (it's also a good way to decimate large enemy armies, receive minimal casualties, then counter-attack). Dol Guldur is an acceptable loss if you can take Minas Tirith.

[Wyrmnax]

Turn was 120-something i think. Got 2 messages that my troops are ready, and i remember seeing that year was 3004 or something like that a few turns ago.

Trolls are good, yes, but 25 turns to recruit one unit means i dont have many.

Made a push for Tirith. Worked well, but the game killed me anyway.

Gathered pretty much all i had, and sent 3 of my stacks trying to make across the plains, had 2 obligatory fights against gondor armies in the middle. They had like 6 stacks across the plains. Pratically 2 of my stacks got to Minas Tirith, triggered the script, and on the siege turn i got the message that Rhun was no more, the elves had done them in.Managed to actually capture the city after getting hit hard o the fields. About half of a stack left when all was done and over.

Then i got the message that Isengard fell.

And i see 3 stacks of Sylvan elves entering mordor through the back entrance. Already can spot Rohan coming down to Tirith.

Oh. And no recruiting in Tirith. Not enough religion.

Next game im going H/H.

I think that what can actually make it easier for me is to, during turn #1, grab all the province commanders that mordor has and make a army out of them. Their upkeep isnt helping, and i doubt any of them is doing any good in cities with such small initial incomes. I believe that the key to Mordor might be to be as aggresive as possible, and take down either Gondor or the Sylvan Elves before they get more than militia avaliable. The militia game was going fine, but when the decent troops entered the field i got seriously outmatched.

[Ariaci]

Next game im going H/H.

Good call, and if it becomes to easy you can change it for your next campaign. Little off-topic, but with the other TW games I tend to set taxes on high. As TA has a lot of low population settlements, the key for me was to learn to put (if possoble) the taxes on low. This opens up the reqruitement of more advandged units faster as population growth is faster.

I think that what can actually make it easier for me is to, during turn #1, grab all the province commanders that mordor has and make a army out of them. Their upkeep isnt helping, and i doubt any of them is doing any good in cities with such small initial incomes. I believe that the key to Mordor might be to be as aggresive as possible, and take down either Gondor or the Sylvan Elves before they get more than militia avaliable. The militia game was going fine, but when the decent troops entered the field i got seriously outmatched.

Playing Harad (favorite of mine) I do the same. Either be quick, or try to get a peace with Gondor so I can built-up to advanged units (trade agreement with Gondor really gives a lot of cash with your coastal settlements) and meet their higher tier units evenly on the field of battle.

Good luck to you on your next campaign!

Ariaci

[Death's Deputy]

Playing as Mordor seems to be extremely difficult, especially on VH/VH. Your economy is absolutely stinking, you're up against Gondor who are probably the strongest faction on the game bar none, and your pretty much reliant on Black Numernorians to win battles and Invasions to keep your economy alive. I've tried a number of campaigns and tactics now and every one has met with failure, be it rushing, turtling, or somewhere inbetween.

I'm now playing as the High Elves instead and finding it much easier - whilst recruitment is slow and I'm often outnumber 3-1 or even worse in battles, if managed correctly the High elf armies can destroy pretty much any army (early on at least) with massive volleys of arrows followed up by a charge. Their economy is solid too, with a number of starting provinces (and others you can expand into) well away from the action, which is mostly focused right now around Rivendell and the Misty mountains. I've taken Ost in Edhil back from the OoTMM and have destroyed heaps of their stacks with very few casualties, for now I'm taking on Gundabad with Gandalf's help (he has a stack too), shud be a bit tougher as they have some trolls but I'm sure I'll succeed.

Interestingly Mordor is much stronger when AI plays it, as I'm only 50 turns in and Minas Tirith has already fallen!

I think Mordor should be stronger, either lower the Orc's upkeep cost (after all Orc's dont need pay and their equipment is basic at best) or increase Mordor's settlement populations, seems kinda wierd to have lots of tiny settlements and small armies cos you can't afford upkeep when Mordor should be crawling with Orcs!

[Erunion Telcontar]

Higher mordor settlement population would be... Nice.
In my current VH/VH Mordor game, I've got taxes everywhere at low and am actively looking for chivalrous generals to garrison my cities. (Yup, Mordor wants honourable orcs!)

[Ngugi]

Yup, Mordor wants honourable orcs!

Sauron love prudent bureaucracy: no litter in the street's you filty snagas! Pay your taxes and build those terrace houses troughout the suburbs, mr and mrs Uruk will soon move in!

taxes on low

as Ariaci said is a good but tricky strategy, as you'll need those $... If you can
1) capture as many gondorians as possible and sell them back after battles and/or
2) might use a army to go on a plunder tour (take settlements, sack them, sell all buildings and leave them/sell them back)
you could cover such losses from low taxes.

[Arágion]

Best tactics? Don't know about that, but this is what I do always:

I stack my Nazguls into one stack and support them with few units of orcs. Nazguls are extremely powerful and are able to take down stack after stack (leaving one to defend Dol Guldur!)

It's easy, with my nazguls I wiped and entire army of Gondorians by first routing them... I attacked with my Nazguls (note! I didn't use my orcs at all!) to the ranks of Gondorians.... it was disaster, to Gondor I used my Nazgul skills one by one, and last I used my Witch king skill.... the entire army routed, 2200 Gondorians started to flee, I just couldn't stop laughing... I butchered them all... leaving none alive!

My losses? 5 Black numenoreans against 2000+ Gondor soldiers

This is maybe not so "brave" tactic, but I like to go berserk with Mordor and with so few losses! try it out!

[Russian Gondor]

For my Modor campaign I only use two stacks. You MUST blitz Gondor. I took it down in under 50 turns, the White City was mine at around turn 30. I recommend you use catapults and ballistas to deal with garrison script. Also roads and markets are a must. Once you defeat Gondor focus on Dale and Rohan. Dale annihalated Rhun and later gives you trouble so I recommend you attack it first, with Roah hold the pass at Dunharrow and you are fine.

[muller227]

Have not played Mordor, but playing the OotMM I found the Halberds were pretty good as long as you held the line with them and maneuvered other troops around them. Well except when facing Elves with their Light Elven Archers of doom. Archers seem to be the best thing to use against the Elves. I find the orc factions kinda hard to play myself because I need so many units. Trolls work great when they are against me but don't seem nearly so tough when I'm running them. Back in 1.3 or 1.4 Elrond by himself took out 200 of my guys before he died or it seemed like it I was getting quite perturbed at him.

The good thing about the orc faction is the sacking and pillaging. Can't bring myself to do it with the Elves, or Arnor for that matter.

[Darth Lord Revan]

it looks like this have changed from a "mordor population help" to "mordor tips on strategy and tactics"... so I may drop my two cents trying not to repeat what's been stated:
As said:
-set taxes on low
-build food production buildings (they increase population growth); roads and trade buildings. And the mines at Barad Dur, they make a LOT of money.
-Use the free unkeep of your citys at the begginning and take all the "extras" to the front, including those good for nothing orc gobernors.
-DONT ACCEPT NEW GENERALS - this is important when you are building up your economy, their unkeep is incredibly high.
-take E. Osgiliath, Cair Andros and Emyn Arnen, in that order...
-try not to recruit too many units to take those rebel settlements and concentrate on defending the bridge to W. Osgiliath and Cair Andros.
-Use the Invasions to your advantage. You can make money with them and involve other factionst against Gondor.

If you follow this, your economy should not be so bad and then you could start building up and army to attack Gondor. The strategy you use on this is yours to choose, either blitz or turtle... or something in between.

I hope this helped you a little.

P.S.: Of course, playing in a lower difficulty will help you a lot too