Novelty Theory (Time Wave Zero)

[Lord de Lyonesse]

Basic outline:



In-depth detail narrated by Terrence McKenna:







Joe Rogan:



What do you think of it, whats going on if anything at all? It seems a lot of stuff is focused around that date 21st December 2012..

[Blau&Gruen]

What do you think of it, whats going on if anything at all?

Something is going to happen in the 21st century.

Great.

I love it. That's the web from its finest side.

Novelty Theory is well chosen as title.

[Lord de Lyonesse]

Great.

I love it. That's the web from its finest side.

Novelty Theory is well chosen as title.

Well it is all derivitive from the I-Ching which has its roots in Chinese history and well, seems to make sense.. I have great admiration and respect for Terrence McKenna and it is clear for all to see that he was clearly a man of great intelligence and learned insight.

[raistlinmajere8]

I have great admiration and respect for Terrence McKenna and it is clear for all to see that he was clearly a man of great intelligence and learned insight.

Seriously?

I just have to laugh at this. The man came up with all this stuff while on psilocybin mushrooms and DMT. A man tripping to the depths of his mind on hallucinogenics is now something to be trusted, or be taken in any form of serious manner? Hmmm... That's all fine and dandy I suppose....

Having personal experience in this manner, I wouldn't take anything anyone says under the influence of psilocybin mushrooms to be serious. If you do, then I would call you a fool.

[Tuor]

What do you think of it, whats going on if anything at all? It seems a lot of stuff is focused around that date 21st December 2012..

DO NOT WANT!

[Denny Crane!]

Forgive me for not watching the videos but isn't iChing just a load of balls? Tarot readings and the like? Because I want to clarify that before wasting my time on videos.

I know Leibniz wrote something about the hexagonal sequences but I've never seen anything to suggest it is anything more or less than hooey.

[Lord de Lyonesse]

Forgive me for not watching the videos but isn't iChing just a load of balls? Tarot readings and the like? Because I want to clarify that before wasting my time on videos.

I know Leibniz wrote something about the hexagonal sequences but I've never seen anything to suggest it is anything more or less than hooey.

Well its impact on Chinese culture has been enormous. Within its pages contains the belief in the acceptance of change - something almost unheard of in Western culture which seeks to preserve the old and stick to the orthodox. Within this acceptance of change comes the mystical world view which people attribute it towards. I'd be careful to simply disqualify its cultural and esteemed importance as its influence stretches across all Asia - with some binary code observable in the South Korean flag:



Also it has a direct implication of the Eastern religion Taoism and also the Japanese 'Way of the Warrior'. To disregard it and debunk it as simply 'balls' would be rude and somewhat stupid as to do so would minimise the important addition Chinese culture has bestowed toward our collective understanding of ourselves and where we are going. In short - it is a philosophical item which pertains similarily to that of the Mayan calender which aside from all the mumbo jumbo of apocalypse and destruction, increase the authenticity of focus on the date 2012 and provides a deductive stream of thought unlike that of Eurocentric philosophy.

[Denny Crane!]

Lots of influence blah blah blah much like Christianity has had lots of influence but I still happily and justifiably refer to that as bollocks as well. It might well be of great interest to me if I was making an anthropological study of the east and its study, and that isn't that unlikely - but philosophically you still haven't given me anything that suggests I need to waste my time with it right now.

The very fact that you said it increases the authenticity of focus on the date 2012 just shut me down right away. Ach well nothing more for me to do here, I'll leave the thread for those who are interested.

[Shams al-Ma'rifa]

I'm sorry but I just checked out the Time wave zero calculator and saw no correlation between its graphical depressions and any major event in history..

[Lord de Lyonesse]

I'm sorry but I just checked out the Time wave zero calculator and saw no correlation between its graphical depressions and any major event in history..

Perhaps you should watch the videos and see the conclusions which Dr McKenna draws.. ¬¬

[Shams al-Ma'rifa]

Perhaps you should watch the videos and see the conclusions which Dr McKenna draws.. ¬¬

Ok.. because Nazi Germany and the Gulf War are the only two major events that occurred in the history of mankind. How about the signing of the US Declaration of Independence? I would say that its a far greater event than the two listed above, yet if you look at July 4, 1776 on the graph you see nothing out of the ordinary..

[Lord de Lyonesse]

Ok.. because Nazi Germany and the Gulf War are the only two major events that occurred in the history of mankind. How about the signing of the US Declaration of Independence? I would say that its a far greater event than the two listed above, yet if you look at July 4, 1776 on the graph you see nothing out of the ordinary..

You think that the US declaration of independene transcends importance of WW2? You sir, are arrogant, naive and misinformed.. Surely the deaths of over 50million people and the implications on culture, life and the fabric of the world was much more scathed than that of an armed uprising due to a few yanks not wanting to pay tax for tea..

Seriously though, America's independence was not of more importance than a WORLD WAR.. hence the name WORLD WAR. I accept the whole timewave thing has a lot of flaws - and it is generally depending upon what important things of history are important for you. It is important to note though that the I-Ching was a document that accepted the serene beauty of change and, most importantly, as Terrence McKenna said plotted the events of the 20th century.. arguably the worlds most turbulent and destructive ever and saw how the world was wrapping into itself.. It really is mind boggling stuff. I stand by saying America's declaration of independence and subsequent war with Britain was in no way, shape or form a world war.. Heck - forgive me for seeming eurocentric, but I'd say the French revolution was of more impact to the world than the American one. America was pretty much isolated anyway and only spent time between 1783-1920 essentially removing Indians from their homes, fighting eachother, getting into punch ups with Mexico, Canada and finally Spain and then selling arms to both sides through World War 1 until 1917..

[Shams al-Ma'rifa]

You think that the US declaration of independene transcends importance of WW2? You sir, are arrogant, naive and misinformed.. Surely the deaths of over 50million people and the implications on culture, life and the fabric of the world was much more scathed than that of an armed uprising due to a few yanks not wanting to pay tax for tea..

Seriously though, America's independence was not of more importance than a WORLD WAR.. hence the name WORLD WAR. I accept the whole timewave thing has a lot of flaws - and it is generally depending upon what important things of history are important for you. It is important to note though that the I-Ching was a document that accepted the serene beauty of change and, most importantly, as Terrence McKenna said plotted the events of the 20th century.. arguably the worlds most turbulent and destructive ever and saw how the world was wrapping into itself.. It really is mind boggling stuff. I stand by saying America's declaration of independence and subsequent war with Britain was in no way, shape or form a world war.. Heck - forgive me for seeming eurocentric, but I'd say the French revolution was of more impact to the world than the American one. America was pretty much isolated anyway and only spent time between 1783-1920 essentially removing Indians from their homes, fighting eachother, getting into punch ups with Mexico, Canada and finally Spain and then selling arms to both sides through World War 1 until 1917..

Hey, what's that country's name..? You know the one that has the highest GDP and most advanced military in the world..? I'm pretty sure it's a superpower or something. I don't remember what it's name is, I think it has the word America in it or something, not totally sure..

[Denny Crane!]

ugh, the war of independence was important. It was significant in the changing of attitudes during the enlightenment and was part of a movement that continued in Britain. The removal of the landed classes and the increasing of suffrage like the 1832 reform act. It wasn't the most significant event in itself but it was huge and part of a much larger transformation of collective consciousness and the expectation of rights within western society.

I think you need a better grasp of history pal and remove the ethnocentric bias or dislike of the USA or whatever else it is you have going on. Further more I watched the video and I spotted some fundamental mistakes so I did a bit of reading.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

2012: Prophet of nonsense #8: Terence McKenna– Novelty theory and timewave zero
Why is it so difficult for the prophets of nonsense to even get some basic facts correct? As shown in my post on Calleman, his cycles do not fit world history. Here is yet another example of pseudo-scientists. Terrence McKenna was an ethnobotanist who loved numerology and as we have seen before, numerology is one these prophets main tools. They constantly claim that they have come up with an exact formula of cyclic repetition and the like, but as any person with basic knowledge of world history can see, these cycles never fit the data.

What was McKenna’s “great” idea then? According to McKenna’s novelty theory (apparently inspired by the important philosopher Alfred Norton Whitehead which definitely should not be associated with this New Age mumbo jumbo). Like Whitehead, McKenna argues that the world is constantly changing, creating novelty. I have no problem with that idea so far, but then McKenna goes astray and his association to spiritualism, shamanism, and pseudoscience is revealed. When “novelty” is graphed over time, a fractal waveform known as timewave zero emerges. The graph shows at what times novelty is supposedly increasing or decreasing.

The timewave itself is a mathematical formula created from McKenna’s interpretation and analysis of numerical patterns in the I Ching, an oracular tool based on Chinese philosophy and associated with magic. McKenna used I Ching to show that the events of any given time are recursively related to the events of other times Things change at an increasing speed and reach a point where change is all that exist and when will this occur? What do you think? Of course, on the 21st of December 2012. However, apparently McKenna’s followers claim that since he and his brother came up with the 2012 date from another source than the Maya calendar this supposedly support the idea that the world ends or is transformed on this date, since having proof from more than one source is better.

I-Ching is composed of 64 hexagrams, which are six-line figures. Here we run into numbers, numbers and more numbers, just to confuse or amaze the reader. If you multiply 6 and 64 you get 384 which is very close (but not exact…) to 13 lunar months (383.8978 days). Well, if you multiply 64 with 384 (not 383.8978) you get 67 years, 104.25 days which supposedly is the length of 6 minor sunspot cycles (11.2 years each). But, for what reason are 13 lunar months associated with sunspot cycles? They are clearly different astronomical phenomena. Of course, multiply the last period by 64 and you get roughly 4306 years (2 Zodiac ages). This must then be multiplied by 6 (not 64) to reach the time period of 25836 years which is the precession of the equinoxes (which is popular among other 2012 prophets).

McKenna choose the atomic bombing of Hiroshima as the starting point for his last 67.29 year cycle (as you know, all prophets believe they live in the final era, so it is and has always been). At the end of this final cycle the novelty should reach a singular point beyond which we do not know what will happen. This should happen in mid November 2012. But since this was close enough to the end of Baktun 12 in the Long Count calendar (December 21, 2012) he decided to adjust the end date so that it fit this calendar! This means than that the last of these 67.29 years periods did not begin with a major event like the atomic bomb, but with a more general idea, such as the end of WWII…

McKenna used the fractal pattern on the rest of the world history as well. By subtracting fractals of 67.29 years from 2012 he claimed to reveal the important phases of world history. As mentioned 2012-67 is 1945 (the end of WW II). OK, so far it roughly fits, but that is about it. The next period must be 64 times longer: 2012-4,306 (67×64) is 2294 BC, when historical time is assumed to have begun. Not really, historical figures and dates are known several centuries earlier in Sumer and Egypt. The next date is 2012-(4,306×64) and here we reach the date of 273,572 BC, supposedly when Homo sapiens emerged. Current estimates place the emergence of Homo sapiens to around 200,000 BC. McKenna’s estimate is over 70,000 years wrong. The next phase is 64 times longer and here we end up at roughly 17,6 million years ago, which he claims is the height of the age of mammals. But, why is such a “height” of relevance? How do you measure this height? The age of mammals is for sure a mammalcentric perspective. There are and were far more species of birds, fish, not to mention insects than there were mammals 17,6 million years ago. Would not the extinction of dinosaurs 64 million years ago be a more relevant “date” since it has number 64 in it? Anyway, the next fractal began 1,128 billion years ago and this he claims is when life began on Earth. This is not even near…

Why do these prophets of nonsense not fit the actual major “events” in the universe or on Earth into their numbers? Why is not the Big Bang included, the formation of the Earth, the Cambrian explosion of life forms, the first terrestrial tetrapods, the first mammals, the extinction of dinosaurs, early hominids, emergence of Paleolithic art, agriculture, urbanization, industrialization, etc.? Some prophets may include one of these “events” but will exclude others since they may not fit their formula.

One could of course argue that at the time when McKenna wrote this nonsense, some of the dates mentioned above were accepted knowledge by science (which they were not, but let us just believe so for a moment). But since he based his fractal timewave on ancient wisdom, he should have gotten it right from the start, and not adjust it. The ancients are always right, remember that…

Also reading the guys wiki page and trying to get past his pseudo science babble and absolute drivel was absolutely excruciating but then again I should have switched off after finding out he was a platonist because at that point you know you are dealing with a kook.

[Lord de Lyonesse]

I think you need a better grasp of history pal and remove the ethnocentric bias or dislike of the USA or whatever else it is you have going on. Further more I watched the video and I spotted some fundamental mistakes so I did a bit of reading.

Thanks for your contribution. Especially for a guy who said:

Ach well nothing more for me to do here, I'll leave the thread for those who are interested.

Anyway.. I always read and develop my understanding of history because I'm studying it at Durham University - the American declaration of independence and subsequent war was a question on my test paper for an exam I sat only yesterday ¬_¬

The point I was making was that the impact of America declaring itself independence was of course substantial and had a massive impact throughout the western world. This is without doubt. However to suggest that these events supercede the various impacts of the 20th century for example World War One and Two is just ridiculous and a crass display of unreasonable opinion.

The actual thread thought is to discuss and debate with the theory Terrence McKenna had applied regarding the I-Ching and the year 2012. It is because of your opinion and reading which is in accordance to the original post that I am responding. It is perhaps quite sweeping to suggest that the I-Ching is 100% accurate and was written for the reason which Mr McKenna speculated it to be - however, my interest for both the I-Ching and McKenna's assumption of what it was for continues to mystify and amaze me. I'm not saying any one person or viewpoint is correct I am simply saying that the Ancient Chinese with a great respect and appreciation for change and being in possession of far more advance psychology and understanding of the human condition than European society for over 700 years provides a certain reason for my mind to remain open. Some speculate that the ancients in fact knew more than what we give them credit for - this too is an opinion I also share:

http://www.altarcheologie.nl/strange...s/dendera3.htm

http://www.qsl.net/w5www/stonehenge.html

http://ad2004.com/Biblecodes/Hebrewm...ramidspt1.html

In some ways they seem almost more worldly aware than western society, at least between the years 1099-1900.

[Denny Crane!]

Thanks for your contribution. Especially for a guy who said:

Indeed and I got interested and very quickly got disinterested but I have watched the videos (never getting that little bit of my life back)

Anyway.. I always read and develop my understanding of history because I'm studying it at Durham University - the American declaration of independence and subsequent war was a question on my test paper for an exam I sat only yesterday ¬_¬

Then how can you think it unimportant? What kind of degree are you studying? As an event and in the broader context it was hugely important and changed the world irrevocably and the consequences to society were huge just like WW2/WW2 had its change on demographics and womens rights.

The point I was making was that the impact of America declaring itself independence was of course substantial and had a massive impact throughout the western world. This is without doubt. However to suggest that these events supercede the various impacts of the 20th century for example World War One and Two is just ridiculous and a crass display of unreasonable opinion.

What are we measuring this by? Can I have your ruler. Please give me a list of your criteria, is it height, depth or volume. Or is this one of those debates that has really no answer since it is applying scientific empirical terms that don't apply, you can say something is important but trying to it is more important? It sounds like subjective opinions applied to objective facts.

The actual thread thought is to discuss and debate with the theory Terrence McKenna had applied regarding the I-Ching and the year 2012. It is because of your opinion and reading which is in accordance to the original post that I am responding. It is perhaps quite sweeping to suggest that the I-Ching is 100% accurate and was written for the reason which Mr McKenna speculated it to be - however, my interest for both the I-Ching and McKenna's assumption of what it was for continues to mystify and amaze me. I'm not saying any one person or viewpoint is correct I am simply saying that the Ancient Chinese with a great respect and appreciation for change and being in possession of far more advance psychology and understanding of the human condition than European society for over 700 years provides a certain reason for my mind to remain open. Some speculate that the ancients in fact knew more than what we give them credit for - this too is an opinion I also share:

http://www.altarcheologie.nl/strange...s/dendera3.htm

http://www.qsl.net/w5www/stonehenge.html

http://ad2004.com/Biblecodes/Hebrewm...ramidspt1.html

In some ways they seem almost more worldly aware than western society, at least between the years 1099-1900.

Counter culture shock. I've suffered from it myself (without having to delve into fantasies to do so though I did end up learning Japanese, mandarin and thai and a thai girlfriend - not all bad). A trip out to these places convinced me it was crap, poverty and desperation don't actually make for that wise a culture. In fact they are partially responsible for the distortion of the original buddhism, not out of malice, as it absorbed into their ancestor worship and spirit beliefs as well as other beliefs about luck which is so hugely prevalent amongst the eastern cultures.

My counter culture experiences have been quite interesting though I don't regret having the fascination with oriental cultures I just wouldn't take it to far if I was you, and I'd certainly base it on something more sound. The problem with things like this is they find some evidence then form a theory to fit around it and if you keep going down this path you'll end up believing every last conspiracy theory, and it is a mindset. Have you never noticed that serious hardcore Alex Jones type people don't just believe one conspiracy theory they believe them all. It is like a religion and it begins with a lack of crtical thinking and research into what they believe. It is evidence first then theory from evidence, it is also sourced properly and the evidence is rock solid. Something that you should be most adequately equipped for being in a rather prestigious university doing a degree in something which requires research and evidence sourcing. With that in mind I'm actually amazed that we are having this conversation.

[Lord de Lyonesse]

Indeed and I got interested and very quickly got disinterested but I have watched the videos (never getting that little bit of my life back).

If you think like that then I can accurately guess you've probably wasted at least a week in of your life collectively on online videos, waiting for a bus that never comes, a friend who never showed.. You can't live life regreting time spent which only in hindsight you knew was futile.. They're only like about 1hour long altogether anyhow.

Then how can you think it unimportant? What kind of degree are you studying? As an event and in the broader context it was hugely important and changed the world irrevocably and the consequences to society were huge just like WW2/WW2 had its change on demographics and womens rights.

I'm studying Batchelor of the Arts (BA hons) History. Like I said it was hugely important within the realm of revolution and government. Politically, it changed the world's perception of radicalism showing how an area ca successfully rebel and win independence through military discipline of armed 'minute men'. It's funny actually, as the Taliban are using the same tactics the Americans used against the British some 200 years ago.. However, in the realm of conflicts impacting upon the world and changing its culture World War 1 & 2 remain of a more ballooned importance: Remember, within the time frame of 1914-1945 women were emancipated and included within the political process (an event which began to happen sporadically all over the world at this time), the nuclear age and atomic destruction became an almost unwanted reality, the world saw the rise of the first communist state, the age of empires came to an abrupt and almost unbelievable end.. The list is almost endless. Many scholars believe the liberal and permissive society observable currently is only as a result of the devastation and destruction of the 20th Century. Only in 1964 was the death penalty scrapped and 1967 homosexuality legalised in Britain coming as late as 1989 in Australia. Do remember it was 1889 that Oscar Wilde went to court for essentially the crime of homosexuality.. One historian commented that more social change has arisen in the past 50 years (he was speaking in 1976) than the past 500 - and while this may be a thought-inspiring use of hyperbole, it goes without question that the dawn of the spacerace and the possibility of eliminating a whole city at the press of the button supercedes the still important and large changes attributed to the American War of Independence.

I acknowledge that you need to put it into context, but in my humble opinon when America resembled the zeitgeist of states in the late 18th century it really didn't fulfill its meritworthy potential. It took until 1864 for all of of the present day USA to abolish slavery, its government became increasingly centralised to the point that arguably, America was no longer federal and it took a civil war for things to be sorted out. Forgive me if I seem to be whittling things down to an absurd degree of simplicity its just if I'm going to be honest the French Revolution was more world changing than the American one, partly perhaps because it was in Europe and I don't mean to sound eurocentric its just when things happened in europe it tended to effect everyone and it wasn't until 1924 (abouts, some would argue 1945) that things started to change - afterall world war 1 & 2 included pretty much every nation and it all started within the region of Europe. In truth, it was the success of the American revolution that contributed towards the French trying it out in 1789 but even with that admitted, the French revolution gave rise to the idea of liberalism, equality and freedom being staples of any self-respecting democracy. The Americans still were trading slaves.. Land of the Free(?) France abolished it back in 1794 and then definitively in 1848. In my opinion, the reasons many American's wanted independence seem to stem from a conservative angle of 'I want my own money' It seems logical to assume that the great supporters of democracy and freedom were employed to simply be free from adhering to the British Navigation Acts and make yet more money through free trade. If America was truly a hub of idealism it could've embraced the concept of 'withering away of the state' however not many anarchist theorists were around at the time, its just when America won - power over the years began to centralise around Washington rather than London..

What are we measuring this by? Can I have your ruler. Please give me a list of your criteria, is it height, depth or volume. Or is this one of those debates that has really no answer since it is applying scientific empirical terms that don't apply, you can say something is important but trying to it is more important? It sounds like subjective opinions applied to objective facts.

It isn't, what I've attempted to do is judge two historic events and their subsequent impact and effect at the world at large according to context and from there timeframe. My conclusion has been honouring America's impact on the world scene as to creating a liberal republic through revolution and showing how steadfast defiance can topple even a forthcoming superpower. While at the same time, regarding World War 2 its pretext and subsequent effect on Europe and the World at large as far greater importance as out of the blood spilt by millions a desirable and socially attractive means of living life have bloomed. In newly liberated America things were still pretty awful for the average joe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays%27_Rebellion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Draft_Riots

On the whole, as a European studying the subject America seems totally at odds with what it is today. With the declaration of independence stating that the nation was built upon the principles of 'Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' and America then viewed to be getting into wars in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan all seems pretty hypocritical. Don't get me wrong, its not an anti-American attitude; on the contrary I think it is in fact an opposite viewpoint which contributes towards foreign attitudes of America being disillusionary - on the whole perhaps its just the percpetion of people viewing America as a country whose government has lost its priniciples.

Counter culture shock. I've suffered from it myself (without having to delve into fantasies to do so though I did end up learning Japanese, mandarin and thai and a thai girlfriend - not all bad). A trip out to these places convinced me it was crap, poverty and desperation don't actually make for that wise a culture. In fact they are partially responsible for the distortion of the original buddhism, not out of malice, as it absorbed into their ancestor worship and spirit beliefs as well as other beliefs about luck which is so hugely prevalent amongst the eastern cultures.

Counter culture shock? I think its just living and embracing new ones. I didn't find it much of a shock. I myself have had a Russian girlfriend and attemtped to learn Finnish, Russian and Ukranian but ended up with a renewed interest with my own culture of Cornwall. I haven't disregarded my acquired cultural capital though as I feel it makes you less bigoted if you discover other cultures. As for the whole Eastern thing, I don't regard them as inferior as you seem to suggest - I went to China July last year and although I was an entire different system of ways to go about living I didn't regard it as crap. I saw poverty, death, evidence of famine and plenty of toil but you shouldn't feel it neccessary to call it crap just - different. Compare there starvation with the well-documented and collected data on subjects such as bankruptcy and financial related crimes/misery and you'll be embued with the knowledge that the West isn't all so jolly too. People suffer everywhere.

My counter culture experiences have been quite interesting though I don't regret having the fascination with oriental cultures I just wouldn't take it to far if I was you, and I'd certainly base it on something more sound. The problem with things like this is they find some evidence then form a theory to fit around it and if you keep going down this path you'll end up believing every last conspiracy theory, and it is a mindset. Have you never noticed that serious hardcore Alex Jones type people don't just believe one conspiracy theory they believe them all. It is like a religion and it begins with a lack of crtical thinking and research into what they believe. It is evidence first then theory from evidence, it is also sourced properly and the evidence is rock solid. Something that you should be most adequately equipped for being in a rather prestigious university doing a degree in something which requires research and evidence sourcing. With that in mind I'm actually amazed that we are having this conversation.

I understand your point when you look into theories, especially one of a conspiricy nature. I mean, only on the recommendations for next video to watch on Youtube there are suggestions of our leaders being reptilans and UFO phenomena. I realise that it opens your mind to wonder and essentially suspend your reason of judgement. I've been reading McKenna's works and its clear from both the videos online and the way he holds himself in his books that he was a man of intelligence and not jut another crackpot theorist - he actually admits if he's wrong in his deduction of the I-Ching and all he said he wouldn't mind as its good to speculate. He ended up dying before it could be empirically verified anyway. Things such as spirituality and religions are elements which no-one can validate. However in the realm of history it remains equally subjective with accepted orthodoxies and norms changing with the social standards of the day. In my exam I had today I quoted George Santayana:

"History is a pack of lies about events that never happened told by people who weren't there"

Although this quotes is hardly appropriate for some of the events in World War 2 in remains a good, simple and thought provoking line in regards to the subjective nature of History itself.

[Helm]

*doesn't watch the videos*

I think it's a load of cobblers.