America the scapegoat?

[rez]

Just a thought - this isnt my heart and soul out for you lads

So whos the nation the highest proportion of people have a problem with? Whenever a liberal kind'ove guy needs to vent his frustration who does he choose? Not countries with oppressive brutal reigimes like Iran, Rowanda or whoever... But the good old U S of A. Now im not giving reasons why they do it, im not even disagreeing (or agreeing). All im saying is America is being treated a little unfairly.

For example there might be a nation under a brutal reigime - Iraq/Afghanistan/Somalia. And america for WHATEVER reasons chooses to invade and re stabilise the area. America is now the foregn invader who is forcing their culture on others like a bigot.

Take the second situation, There is a desperately poor country in the throes of civil strife like Rowanda or a war being fought without american help (WW1 and 2 until America actually got goaded into action). The same liberal guys are going to blame america for not helping the poor guys out. Now america is isolationist and cold hearted.

Isn't that a little silly? To quote Bart Simpson - "You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't"

So is America just the scapegoat for any liberal guy to blame?

Note im not a conservative or a liberal, and as with most of my morally unrelated thoughts ive never quite made up my mind so dont treat this as rez philosophy ive already proved my own argument wrong, but i reckon i'l let someone else do the other side.

Edit: im not American either

[Removed_user_012521]

Amen!!!

[leeho730]

I suppose US would be damned if she didn't invade Iraq?

I know, US has done some fantastic jobs in the past, like WW2, WW1, or Korean war.

But they have fair share of evil, like destroying some democratically-elect governments.

I have to agree to some extend that US gets bigger attention because it's world's superpower, but that cannot be a proper excuse, IMHO. You've gotta be an example, as a top guy.

[RusskiSoldat]

You're the top imperialist power.
Get over it.
When China is the sole superpower, people will be :wub: about it just as much as they are currently :wub: about the states.

[Libertine]

Why is it always Liberals :wub: about things? afaik Liberals are not the only ones who look for scapegoats.

[Ahiga]

Well, one great quality of the nation is the fact that we are constantly criticizing and picking apart any action our government does. Better that we constantly be a back seat driver, than just doze off and let them do as they wish.

[leeho730]

Well, one great quality of the democratic nation is the fact that we are constantly criticizing and picking apart any action our government does. Better that we constantly be a back seat driver, than just doze off and let them do as they wish.

[danzig]

Well, one great quality of the democratic nation is the fact that we are constantly criticizing and picking apart any action our government does. Better that we constantly be a back seat driver, than just doze off and let them do as they wish.

True but sometimes I wish more intelligence was behind the comments (both sides not singling out one since everyone scape goats everyone else) instead of sound bite rhetoric. There is too much white noise in the criticism and it sounds more like an old mother in law :wub: rather then constructive criticism which actually helps. I mean a backseat driver that is just yelling and screaming about how your going the wrong way instead of actually come up with the right directions is just an annoyance and probably make you pull over the car and drag the sob out of the car!

[Removed_user_012521]

True but sometimes I wish more intelligence was behind the comments (both sides not singling out one since everyone scape goats everyone else) instead of sound bite rhetoric. There is too much white noise in the criticism and it sounds more like an old mother in law :wub: rather then constructive criticism which actually helps. I mean a backseat driver that is just yelling and screaming about how your going the wrong way instead of actually come up with the right directions is just an annoyance and probably make you pull over the car and drag the sob out of the car!

Can't agree more. With people like Nancy Pelosi, and Hillary Clinton, and man did you see Ted Kennedy at the Allito hearings, that was funny.

[danzig]

Can't agree more. With people like Nancy Pelosi, and Hillary Clinton, and man did you see Ted Kennedy at the Allito hearings, that was funny.

Hehe Ted is funny loved the news item that Mr Kennedy himself belongs to organization just like the one he attacked Alito for. Ted going on and on about how could Alito be a member of an organization that he wasnt aware of what they did and here Ted is a doing the exact same thing! Opposition is absolutely vital for a democracy but to be against something is one thing but you need to be for an alternative solution and far too many dont have one. Its easy to tell someone what they are doing wrong but requires alot more effort to come up with something better and if you cant do that then why open your mouth in the first place and that unfortunately is far too much of 'debate' in the US now a days.

[Atheist Peace]

Can't agree more. With people like Nancy Pelosi, and Hillary Clinton, and man did you see Ted Kennedy at the Allito hearings, that was funny.

They were indeed terrible, but just as disgraceful and shameful was Lindsey Graham's little speech. He used the patented right wing tactic, feigning indignance at something to get an emotional reaction. Guess what? It worked.

I'm not defending the Dems in any way, I hate almost all of them, but if you think they're the only ones that do things like that, then you should get to some kind of doctor...

Hehe Ted is funny loved the news item that Mr Kennedy himself belongs to organization just like the one he attacked Alito for. Ted going on and on about how could Alito be a member of an organization that he wasnt aware of what they did and here Ted is a doing the exact same thing! Opposition is absolutely vital for a democracy but to be against something is one thing but you need to be for an alternative solution and far too many dont have one. Its easy to tell someone what they are doing wrong but requires alot more effort to come up with something better and if you cant do that then why open your mouth in the first place and that unfortunately is far too much of 'debate' in the US now a days.

I fully agree, and this applies to both sides.

[danzig]

They were indeed terrible, but just as disgraceful and shameful was Lindsey Graham's little speech. He used the patented right wing tactic, feigning indignance at something to get an emotional reaction. Guess what? It worked.

Yeah it was, the entire hearing from every one of the members was a disgrace and achieved nothing but some tv time for them. Like Alito or not, its irrelevent the fact is he is qualified for court and will be appointed but dems and gop needed their little freak show hearing.

I fully agree, and this applies to both sides.

Yep what I said as well but sometimes there are people who just outdo everyone else and Ted is one of those so he deserved special merit

[Darth Wong]

Whenever a liberal kind'ove guy needs to vent his frustration who does he choose? Not countries with oppressive brutal reigimes like Iran, Rowanda or whoever... But the good old U S of A.

Naturally, for two reasons:

1) Brutal third-world regimes do not run around proclaiming at every turn that they are the "light of freedom for the entire world". Everyone knows they're brutal regimes and they don't even really try to hide it. There is a natural compulsion to attack the hypocrite more than the unapologetic offender. What's more satisfying? Calling out a man who uses prostitutes and is not ashamed of it, or calling out a sanctimonious TV preacher who uses prostitutes in defiance of his own high-minded holier-than-thou rhetoric?

2) People are naturally self-interested, and the brutal behaviour of a third-world regime is unlikely to directly affect anyone living outside that regime. The US, on the other hand, has the power to alter the behaviour of foreign governments and affect peoples' lives directly even outside its own borders. That makes them a more direct problem. Case in point: some kid in Norway violates a ridiculous US law called the DMCA, and gets arrested for it even though he's broken no Norwegian law. This scares people. As brutal as Mugabe is, he can't reach out and make Norway do his bidding, so people in Norway aren't scared of him.

[Nationalist_Cause]

The problem is that good, patriotic Americans die to give "liberty" and "freedom" to foreigners when they should be spilling their blood for America alone. Clearly our recent interventions, in Kosovo or Iraq, wasn't in the interest of the American people. Yet we insist on expending blood and treasure for the well being of other people.

[rez]

And my point would say that it would be easy for someone to say to nationalist cause that that makes america cold and uncaring. Wheras when they do intervene its an outrage.

And to be honest i was waiting for darth wong to say that. Although i would add my analogies are a little off because each of those cases i cited in my situations has very different factors influencing it

[Admiral Nelson]

for the well being of other people.

U.S. soldiers fight on the side their politicians choose, usually for purely political reasons, which, unfortunately, is not necessarily the side which is in the best interests of people in question (like Vietnam)

Also, the motives behind some very recent wars are highly in question, how can you explain the fact that the Iraqi's you were "liberating" didn't pour out into the streets and hail you as heroes when your Apaches, Abrams, and Humvees started rumbling past their homes?

As the current major world superpower, the US has the responsibility to act in the world's interests, not only that of its own. Bush has dug America into an international hole it will take a long time to get out of, since it was extremely insulting for the international community to be ignored, as the Iraq war was unjustly commenced.

(ok, I'm sorry for going slightly off topic, it was necessary for my explanation)

[Nationalist_Cause]

And my point would say that it would be easy for someone to say to nationalist cause that that makes america cold and uncaring. Wheras when they do intervene its an outrage.

And to be honest i was waiting for darth wong to say that. Although i would add my analogies are a little off because each of those cases i cited in my situations has very different factors influencing it

No, it makes me a realist. America can't solve the world's problems. We can only hope to solve our own problems. If the entire world is angry with us, why not sit back and reflect on why that is the case? Clearly our interventionist policies are the cause. The best alternative is to concern ourselves only with that which threatens our national interests.

If we can't please the entire world let us at least please our own people. Our current situation does neither.

U.S. soldiers fight on the side their politicians choose, usually for purely political reasons, which, unfortunately, is not necessarily the side which is in the best interests of people in question (like Vietnam)

Exactly my point, which is why I say to hell with trying to intervene in the affairs of other people. It doesn't work out for anyone. If American blood is to be spilled, let it be only for the defense of American liberties.

EDIT: Sorry, double post. Please merge with previous one if you can. Thanks.

[Atheist Peace]

Yeah it was, the entire hearing from every one of the members was a disgrace and achieved nothing but some tv time for them. Like Alito or not, its irrelevent the fact is he is qualified for court and will be appointed but dems and gop needed their little freak show hearing.

Yeah, I agree. The whole idea of questioning a nominee on all of his political views is disgusting too, what matters is that they back up their opinions with a strong understanding of consititutional law, and will be fair in listening to both sides of an argument. Whether he interprets the constitution as a wacko liberal, or some crazy right-winger, does not matter.

[Last Roman]

Yeah, I agree. The whole idea of questioning a nominee on all of his political views is disgusting too, what matters is that they back up their opinions with a strong understanding of consititutional law, and will be fair in listening to both sides of an argument. Whether he interprets the constitution as a wacko liberal, or some crazy right-winger, does not matter.

how does it not matter? His politics will influence how he interpets (or doesn't interpet) the constitution, and thus the issues that come to the supreme court.

[leeho730]

True but sometimes I wish more intelligence was behind the comments (both sides not singling out one since everyone scape goats everyone else) instead of sound bite rhetoric. There is too much white noise in the criticism and it sounds more like an old mother in law :wub: rather then constructive criticism which actually helps. I mean a backseat driver that is just yelling and screaming about how your going the wrong way instead of actually come up with the right directions is just an annoyance and probably make you pull over the car and drag the sob out of the car!

Better than your trolling, mister. Well, I'm joining the army (which is undoubtly a part of UN peacekeeping force), does that give me more right to argue about defence policy than other people who hasn't joined the army?

I love those people who just sit in front of desktop and telling other people that their criticisms are nothing but just yelling and screaming. If you join the army to fight for your patriotic ideals (like me) then you have my respect, but otherwise don't call me whiner.