Is it selfish to sacrifice yourself for someone?

[Necromancer]

I remember having a discussion in my English class a few years ago about this, as it was brought up in the book we were reading at the time. I figured this would be a great subject to start a thread about.

So, what does everyone think?

[Biggreenfellow]

Lolwut? Sacrificing your own life to safe that of another is the most selfless act one can commit, and takes great testicular fortitude. People that have it in themselves to do that are flipping heroes, how could that possibly be selfish?!

[Necromancer]

I'm of the same mind, as well. But - here's the argument - and it is a pretty decent one, I think. The person you sacrificed yourself for has to live with the fact that they're alive because you're not.

[Biggreenfellow]

I'm of the same mind, as well. But - here's the argument - and it is a pretty decent one, I think. The person you sacrificed yourself for has to live with the fact that they're alive because you're not.

How is that selfish? It's not like the guy that gave his life is getting better because of that. He's dead, what does he care?

selfish [ˈsɛlfɪʃ]adj1. chiefly concerned with one's own interest, advantage, etc., esp to the total exclusion of the interests of others
2. relating to or characterized by self-interestselfishly adv
selfishness n

The one that sacrifices himself does not gain any personal advantage, nor is he protecting his own interests by dying.

[CamilleBonparte]

I'm of the same mind, as well. But - here's the argument - and it is a pretty decent one, I think. The person you sacrificed yourself for has to live with the fact that they're alive because you're not.

So you could make the argument it can be inconsiderate (perhaps the person you sacrifice yourself for never would have wanted you to), but certainly not selfish.

[Lordinquisitor]

Personally i think that almost every act (Or every act?) is inherently selfish. If you sacrifice yourself for someone you do it because you think it`s right; You do it to stick to your principles. So you could say it`s selfish.

But selfish =/= Bad.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Personally i think that almost every act (Or every act?) is inherently selfish. If you sacrifice yourself for someone you do it because you think it`s right; You do it to stick to your principles. So you could say it`s selfish.

But selfish =/= Bad.

that's a silly viewpoint. You could als argue that every act is selfless by the same logic. Doesn't make sense,

[Necromancer]

Very true. I've actually pondered that a few times and came up with the same conclusion, that selfishness doesn't always mean greed. Sometimes (as is the case with this thread), it can, ironically, be pretty selfless.

[Lordinquisitor]

I guess it depends on how you describe selfish.

For example; You sacrifice yourself to save someone because you couldn`t live on knowing that you could have saved that person. That could be considered selfish.

[CamilleBonparte]

I guess it depends on how you describe selfish.

For example; You sacrifice yourself to save someone because you couldn`t live on knowing that you could have saved that person. That could be considered selfish.

But doesn't the fact that you couldn't live with yourself if you didn't commit the ultimate act of altruism say something about one's personality? It paints them as entirely selfless. So no, I disagree, that is not a selfish motivation.

[Enemy of the State]

People act because they believe the outcome is preferrable to any other action or lack of. So yes, all human action is selfish.

[Gilkanese]

I voted that it is not selfish. I mean, sacrificing yourself for someone else... you really can't do much better than that.

[Prince Odysseus]

I remember having a discussion in my English class a few years ago about this, as it was brought up in the book we were reading at the time. I figured this would be a great subject to start a thread about.

So, what does everyone think?

I'm more interested to know which book you read.

[Necromancer]

I'm more interested to know which book you read.

To be honest, I forget. I was 17 at the time, and was more interested in the smokin' hot blonde and her exposed undergarments sitting front of me. Not that I find girls less interesting now, bit I've got a bit more experience with them under my belt now.

Personally, I don't believe that it's selfish (in the traditional sense of the word) to sacrifice yourself for someone. My English teacher did, but she challenged anything considered "normal" just to be different. She was a hot blonde as well... So, she was also rather distracting... I just thought that this would be a great subject to debate over.

[Squiggle]

If your going to paint every act as selfish under the definition that, as you took the act you clearly wanted to do the act more than the alternatives, you've robbed the word of any meaning.

[Claudius Gothicus]

It's altruistic... the opposite of selfishness.

Selfish suicide: reflects a prolonged sense of not belonging, of not being integrated in a community, an experience, of not having a tether, an absence that can give rise to meaninglessness, apathy, melancholy, and depression.

Altruistic suicide: is characterized by a sense of being overwhelmed by a group's goals and beliefs. Love, social responsibility(saving an unknowns child life) or other feeling being a type of social belief we can certainly conclude that sacrifice is indeed altruistic.

Given the uncertainty of death there's no act more altruistic than sacrifice. It would be egoistical in nature if we could with almost absolute certainty know for sure that those who die have an afterlife, but we don't so sacrifice is basically an ''all in'' without even looking at your cards.

[Pontifex Maximus]

I believe most human acts are inherently selfish.

[Tacitursa]

You sacrifice yourself to save someone because you couldn`t live on knowing that you could have saved that person. That could be considered selfish.

+1

There's another side to that also, Instead of feeling ashamed and being a coward you can become the honourable brave hero that's highly thought of by peers and those saved. It's why some people insist it be them that sacrafices themselves and in some cases people will even compete for the position so it is them thats remembered as the hero.

Love plays a big role too, It's much easier to save a loved one and kill yourself than let them die infront of you and suffer the heart ache and grief.

I cant think of a sacrafice that isnt selfish.

But doesn't the fact that you couldn't live with yourself if you didn't commit the ultimate act of altruism say something about one's personality? It paints them as entirely selfless. So no, I disagree, that is not a selfish motivation.

Is that not selfish motivation?

[Claudius Gothicus]

There's another side to that also, Instead of feeling ashamed and being a coward you can become the honourable brave hero that's highly thought of by peers and those saved. It's why some people insist it be them that sacrafices themselves and in some cases people will even compete for the position so it is them thats remembered as the hero.

Self preservation beats complete uncertainty. Most people can eventually live while having left someone who's not that attached to them die. Some cannot and those who act to save a stranger's life with total disregard of their own are being altruistic because they are not responding to their own ''economic rational choice'' of costs and benefits they are doing it because they are strongly imbued with social beliefs such as solidarity, bravery or even a glorification of sacrifice itself(like in Christianity).

Love plays a big role too, It's much easier to save a loved one and kill yourself than let them die infront of you and suffer the heart ache and grief.

You're not saving them because it might make you feel bad if you don't, you are responding to a myriad of social attachments known as love, friendship, comradeship etc. Those trigger an act which again goes against the self-preservation equation. To be selfish is to attach yourself to certainty, when you make an all in bet without even looking at the cards(death is pure uncertainty) so you can save someone else(different types of solidarity are a common social belief in all societies) you're not being selfish you're responding to outer stimulus which you ignore in the moment yet still exist because it's been encrypted through education during all your life... you're losing your life because of a higher cause, Love(for example).

[Biggreenfellow]

I believe most human acts are inherently selfish.

+1

There's another side to that also, Instead of feeling ashamed and being a coward you can become the honourable brave hero that's highly thought of by peers and those saved. It's why some people insist it be them that sacrafices themselves and in some cases people will even compete for the position so it is them thats remembered as the hero.

Love plays a big role too, It's much easier to save a loved one and kill yourself than let them die infront of you and suffer the heart ache and grief.

I cant think of a sacrafice that isnt selfish.



Is that not selfish motivation?

This might come as a shock to some, but I've gotta agree with Squiggle on this matter. If you call everything selfish, then the word loses it's meaning. I'm pretty sure you can make every thing anyone does look selfish if you dig deep enough, but that would not be the motivation of the deed.

For example, you are waiting for the train to come, but a young kid falls of the platform and on to the rails as the train approaches. You jump down (his mother is in too great a shock to do it herself, or whatever), without knowing the kid in any way, and throw him back on the platform, but you can't get back up on it yourself in time, and you are run over. How is that act, saving someone you do not know and do not love, or otherwise care for, selfish? If I ever get into that hypothetical situation, I hope I can find the courage to do the right thing, not because I want to be a hero but because it would be just that; the right thing to do.