Why is this propaganda?

[The Dude]

Why is it that people condemn the following as the propaganda of an insidious regime:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Whereas this is accepted as political campaigning and freedom of speech by the same population:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It almost seems as though the former are a lot less hateful than the latter.

[Treize]

I agree. Blame hypocrisy.

[Farnan]

They are both considered propaganda (the term propaganda was used for all advertisements till it became associated with the Nazis fyi), but only the top is state sponsored. Furthermore, the top one is considered a mild form of propaganda, the second is more evidence of the popularity cult of Stalin.

[cenkiss]

Because commies are evil.

[Viking Prince]

Does the OP have a source for the claims made? I do not recall my history lessons condemning such as propaganda. I do remember it being labeled as such, but not condemned for being such. As another member posted, propaganda is simply advertising. Proctor and Gamble is the master of propaganda. Madison avenue makes it's fortune off of propaganda.

btw -- your three sets of examples of praise seem to be a bit biased as well since you seem to be thinking that the Republicans are to be equated with Nazis and totalitarian communists as far as advertising goes. What about throwing in an Obama hope and change ad from the last election for some balance or some dailykos attack pic claiming Bush lied, People Died? How about a Starbucks ad as well? Or maybe a pic urging all to be counted in the Census?

Prediction -- this thread is dead.

[The Dude]

Does the OP have a source for the claims made? I do not recall my history lessons condemning such as propaganda.

Difference between countries, I suppose. In dutch history class at high school there's always a few hours each year dedicated to understanding the difference between propaganda and regular advertisement. I had expected this to be the case in the US aswell.

btw -- your three sets of examples of praise seem to be a bit biased as well since you seem to be thinking that the Republicans are to be equated with Nazis and totalitarian communists as far as advertising goes. What about throwing in an Obama hope and change ad from the last election for some balance or some dailykos attack pic claiming Bush lied, People Died? How about a Starbucks ad as well? Or maybe a pic urging all to be counted in the Census?

The reason for posting this thread came from a discussion I had with a friend, who had no idea about Sarah Palin's hitlist until I told him that what she had essentially done was post a map of the US with crosshairs pointing at electoral districts where her political opponents resided. He was not only at a loss for words, but at the same time horribly disturbed that America had actually degenerated to this level of quasi-political incitement of hatred.

The first thing he argued was that it seemed to him as though such a map, or indeed any other similar ad where political opponents are directly attacked with unambiguous language, managed to cross lines that not even old nazi and communist propaganda did.

I didn't mean to imply that only republicans did this, most of my images are the result of random google searches with the exception of the Palin one. If there's equally horrible material from the side of the democrats then there's no denying that both sides are guilty of creating one of the most hostile political environments in western democracy. For the most part I just wanted to express his disappointment in the current US, which I for a large part share.

It seems to the both of us as if people right now are so caught up in the hatred and bitterness directed at both sides that they are incapable of realizing that the people they think are their political leaders are crossing some pretty serious ethical lines, when in fact one would assume that through education they would be capable of doing so.

[Imperial]

Difference between countries, I suppose. In dutch history class at high school there's always a few hours each year dedicated to understanding the difference between propaganda and regular advertisement. I had expected this to be the case in the US aswell.



The reason for posting this thread came from a discussion I had with a friend, who had no idea about Sarah Palin's hitlist until I told him that what she had essentially done was post a map of the US with crosshairs pointing at electoral districts where her political opponents resided. He was not only at a loss for words, but at the same time horribly disturbed that America had actually degenerated to this level of quasi-political incitement of hatred.

The first thing he argued was that it seemed to him as though such a map, or indeed any other similar ad where political opponents are directly attacked with unambiguous language, managed to cross lines that not even old nazi and communist propaganda did.

I didn't mean to imply that only republicans did this, most of my images are the result of random google searches with the exception of the Palin one. If there's equally horrible material from the side of the democrats then there's no denying that both sides are guilty of creating one of the most hostile political environments in western democracy. For the most part I just wanted to express his disappointment in the current US, which I for a large part share.

It seems to the both of us as if people right now are so caught up in the hatred and bitterness directed at both sides that they are incapable of realizing that the people they think are their political leaders are crossing some pretty serious ethical lines, when in fact one would assume that through education they would be capable of doing so.

So you are assuming that American's don't know the aforementioned images you provided are propaganda?

[The Dude]

So you are assuming that American's don't know the aforementioned images you provided are propaganda?

Well perhaps they do, but they are certainly not treated with the same sense of urgency. As in, regarded as having the same potential to derail the country into a dangerous direction as propaganda posters of old. Which is logical, because I think that a lot of americans, certainly the population between 18 and 30, don't know any better than their political climate being hateful and malicious. So obviously without context it's hard to put things into perspective.

[Imperial]

because I think that a lot of americans, certainly the population between 18 and 30, don't know any better than their political climate being hateful and malicious

Americans do know how hateful and malicious our political climate is. American politics has been that way ever since the formation of this country. Hell, fights use to break out in congress during the 1800's. Hateful politics is what lead us into the Civil War.

[Razor]

Why is it that people condemn the following as the propaganda of an insidious regime:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Whereas this is accepted as political campaigning and freedom of speech by the same population:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It almost seems as though the former are a lot less hateful than the latter.

I for one don't consider propaganda as a pejorative term. It's a distinction one makes with these words, and IMO it's an artificial one. All are propaganda with a particular purpose in mind.

Difference between countries, I suppose. In dutch history class at high school there's always a few hours each year dedicated to understanding the difference between propaganda and regular advertisement. I had expected this to be the case in the US aswell.



The reason for posting this thread came from a discussion I had with a friend, who had no idea about Sarah Palin's hitlist until I told him that what she had essentially done was post a map of the US with crosshairs pointing at electoral districts where her political opponents resided. He was not only at a loss for words, but at the same time horribly disturbed that America had actually degenerated to this level of quasi-political incitement of hatred.

The first thing he argued was that it seemed to him as though such a map, or indeed any other similar ad where political opponents are directly attacked with unambiguous language, managed to cross lines that not even old nazi and communist propaganda did.

I didn't mean to imply that only republicans did this, most of my images are the result of random google searches with the exception of the Palin one. If there's equally horrible material from the side of the democrats then there's no denying that both sides are guilty of creating one of the most hostile political environments in western democracy. For the most part I just wanted to express his disappointment in the current US, which I for a large part share.

It seems to the both of us as if people right now are so caught up in the hatred and bitterness directed at both sides that they are incapable of realizing that the people they think are their political leaders are crossing some pretty serious ethical lines, when in fact one would assume that through education they would be capable of doing so.

Well didn't Goebbels state that if people find out that something is in fact propaganda, it becomes ineffective? So in that sense, telling young (and uncritical and naive) students that what Hitler and Stalin and other bad people did was propaganda while calling other propaganda 'regular advertisement' is masking the fact that it's in fact all propaganda, does make sense.

However I'm quite disturbed about the fact that your friend only found recently...

[Atatürk]

Because the former are inspirational, whereas the latter are spiteful.

[Col. Tartleton]

Because the former are inspirational, whereas the latter are spiteful.

Propaganda is supposed to be inspirational...

Even if it's inspiring you to hit someone in the head with a brick.

[Poach]

The bottom ones are propaganda: propaganda is an integral part of political campaigning. Where have you read that the bottom images are not considered propaganda?

[ivan_the_terrible]

Why is it that people condemn the following as the propaganda of an insidious regime:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Whereas this is accepted as political campaigning and freedom of speech by the same population:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It almost seems as though the former are a lot less hateful than the latter.

That's fine if your definition of propaganda is 'hatefulness'.

(And yes these are all forms of propaganda.)

[Enemy of the State]

What's wrong with propaganda? It's only recently that it took a negative meaning.

[Phier]

prop·a·gan·da

  <a href=&quot;http://dictionary.reference.com/audi...P0831800&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;><img src=&quot;http://sp.dictionary.com/dictstatic/...aker.gif&quot; alt=&quot;propaganda pronunciation&quot; border=&quot;0&quot;></a> /ˌprɒpəˈgændə/ Show Spelled[prop-uh-gan-duh] Show IPA
–noun1.information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
2.the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.
3.the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.
4.Roman Catholic Church. a.a committee of cardinals, established in 1622 by Pope Gregory XV, having supervision over foreign missions and the training of priests for these missions.

b.a school (College of Propaganda) established by Pope Urban VIII for the education of priests for foreign missions.

Propaganda isn't evil. Propaganda becomes a problem when it is deceitful.

[Phier]

I think the moral of the story is that its only propaganda if its for a cause you don't believe in

[Basil II the B.S]

Say whatever you want about commies, but the Stalin poster is a masterpiece.

[Saturn]

Say whatever you want about commies, but the Stalin poster is a masterpiece.

I like the top one better.

[Denny Crane!]

Which con artists are the better? Peaceful democracies of course. We get the impression that we're in this voluntarily, sheer bloody genius!