Why the Hate against the HRE? - Pls no flaming and pls stay on topic ty

[Marcvs Antonivs]

But the game is related to 1100-1500 not 1800. I really don't agree seeing a ERE expanding like crazy, and watching HRE crumbling within 100 turns of my game, unless I play them of course. HRE should be at least given prague and groningen or something like that.

[DochtorGajo]

HRE has undefeatable gothic knights for price of any sh$tty 13th or 14th century cavalry what else can one desire?

[PerXX]

HRE has undefeatable gothic knights for price of any sh$tty 13th or 14th century cavalry what else can one desire?

'
Survivability beyond the 12'th century?

[k/t]

Yeah, but that's when the player is the HRE. We're talking about strengthening it so the AI doesn't die.

[chris7ian]

Well I truely believe these things will solve some issues maybe not all.

EARLY
1. Give Ancona to the HRE . Reason being they can then have a somewhat reasonable chance to maintain Bologna.
2. Give Prague to the HRE. Historically accurate plus add more wealth and another needed city. The HRE is heavy on castles.
3. Remap the boundary between Innsbruck, Milan, and Venice. So the HRE can traverse N to S without ruining relations.
4. Give Frankfurt and Vienna a population bump and better walls.
5. Remove them and all Catholic factions from being crusaded upon.
6. Adjust relations to make them more accurate. The HRE had reasonable relations with France, and Denmark. Even with Poland the relationship was generally peaceful.
7. Remove the Offensive to the Nobility trait from Heinrich Salier. They have few generals and lots of land, last thing they need for balance is to lose 1/4 of the generals to this trait. Two generals, Georg Ermolt and Wilhem Karolinger have no loyaltystarter trait so they will rebel 90% or better of the time.

LATE
1. Nix the Sicilians. By marriage the Kingdom of Sicily was merged into the HRE. Frederick II von Hohenstaufen was the King of Sicily before being elected King of Germany. Make no sense to waste a slot on a faction that wasn't autonomous.
2. Give them Prague, Lyon, and Marseille. France seems pretty powerful enough they dont need two historically HRE settlements. Prague was in the HRE also at this time.
3. Population bump on Frankfurt, Bari, Vienna, and Lyon.

P.S. I love how people only a week ago were saying the Byzantines weren't overpowered but now admit they are...

[charles the hammer]

EARLY
1. Give Ancona to the HRE . Reason being they can then have a somewhat reasonable chance to maintain Bologna.
2. Give Prague to the HRE. Historically accurate plus add more wealth and another needed city. The HRE is heavy on castles.
3. Remap the boundary between Innsbruck, Milan, and Venice. So the HRE can traverse N to S without ruining relations.
4. Give Frankfurt and Vienna a population bump and better walls.
5. Remove them and all Catholic factions from being crusaded upon.
6. Adjust relations to make them more accurate. The HRE had reasonable relations with France, and Denmark. Even with Poland the relationship was generally peaceful.
7. Remove the Offensive to the Nobility trait from Heinrich Salier. They have few generals and lots of land, last thing they need for balance is to lose 1/4 of the generals to this trait. Two generals, Georg Ermolt and Wilhem Karolinger have no loyaltystarter trait so they will rebel 90% or better of the time.

1. I dont think that is a good idea, I dont believe that owned that city
2.That would make sense.
3.that may work
4.That may also help, but I wouldnt try to go to far.
5.maybe if you can elimate just certain areas, or it could ruin things.
6. I dont know if that would actually help things, but maybe
7.I dont like that but I dont believe it would be accurate, plus with the other changes they would be over powered.

Well I truely believe these things will solve some issues maybe not all.


LATE
1. Nix the Sicilians. By marriage the Kingdom of Sicily was merged into the HRE. Frederick II von Hohenstaufen was the King of Sicily before being elected King of Germany. Make no sense to waste a slot on a faction that wasn't autonomous.
2. Give them Prague, Lyon, and Marseille. France seems pretty powerful enough they dont need two historically HRE settlements. Prague was in the HRE also at this time.
3. Population bump on Frankfurt, Bari, Vienna, and Lyon.

P.S. I love how people only a week ago were saying the Byzantines weren't overpowered but now admit they are...

I would agree to the sicillians but to be honest the late campaign needs a total conversion, also I dont think everyone agrees with the romans being overpowered, but whatever take your shots if that makes you feel better.

[newt]

3. I don't think this is possible. You can only limit which regions can be attacked. What happens if a muslim faction conquers a catholic settlement? You wont be able to crusade to get it back.

[k/t]

How often does that happen compared to how often the HRE is crusaded?

[newt]

Jerusalem. Remove crusades for it and you remove a very important part of the game.

[chris7ian]

Jerusalem. Remove crusades for it and you remove a very important part of the game.

True that. I overlooked them lol. All and never statements always bite you in the rear. I just didnt want it to be just the hre who cant be crusaded upon. My main concern is Catholic crusades on excommed Catholics. If theres a better way to prevent this then that way.

[k/t]

I never said to remove Jerusalem from the list, just Frankfurt, Toulouse, London, and the other solidly Christian ones.

[newt]

Here's an idea: don't get excommunicated.

[chris7ian]

Here's an idea: don't get excommunicated.

Easy said for the player but AI doesn't seem to follow this logic.

[newt]

When are you guys seeing them wiped out? year and early/late?

[chris7ian]

When are you guys seeing them wiped out? year and early/late?

100-150 turns both eras. I've mainly seen them in late because I normally play HRE when in Early.

[Ichon]

I've never seen HRE live past 150 turns with more than 2 settlement and this is all the way back to 6.1- they almost did it one Denmark game- had great battles until about turn 130 and then they get Crusaded and went down to 3 settlements in 10 turns.

The problem with Crusade is they are in the middle of Europe- normally if a Crusade goes to Jerusalem or even Vilnius those places are far away from the Catholics sending the armies. With HRE the Crusade armies come along with 4-6 more from the borders so in 1 Crusade I've seen as many as 40 armies swarm- only about half being Crusaders- the rest just neighboring Polish, Denmark, Venice, French, etc... its an instant horde and instead of arriving over 100 turns like Mongols it arrive in 5 turns.

I didn't know it was possible to remove from Crusade target list... I thought you could only move cities to the end of the list so when HRE is the first Crusaded they are still on the list. If they can be taken off... excommunication will lead to most of their neighbors fighting them- don't need the extra Crusade armies there as well and then you don't have 2 armies from England, Scotland, Teutons, Portugal, Aragon, Castile, Sicily... should decrease the attacking stacks by 1/3 or so- I think HRE still lose this battle but more slowly. Buff it a tiny bit or redo some areas of map to make it easier for HRE armies to move and harder to invaders and its much better.

[charles the hammer]

I've never seen HRE live past 150 turns with more than 2 settlement and this is all the way back to 6.1- they almost did it one Denmark game- had great battles until about turn 130 and then they get Crusaded and went down to 3 settlements in 10 turns.

yeah it seems that is the biggest one of their issues, removing frankfurt from the crusade list would help.

[chris7ian]

I've never seen HRE live past 150 turns with more than 2 settlement and this is all the way back to 6.1- they almost did it one Denmark game- had great battles until about turn 130 and then they get Crusaded and went down to 3 settlements in 10 turns.

The problem with Crusade is they are in the middle of Europe- normally if a Crusade goes to Jerusalem or even Vilnius those places are far away from the Catholics sending the armies. With HRE the Crusade armies come along with 4-6 more from the borders so in 1 Crusade I've seen as many as 40 armies swarm- only about half being Crusaders- the rest just neighboring Polish, Denmark, Venice, French, etc... its an instant horde and instead of arriving over 100 turns like Mongols it arrive in 5 turns.

I didn't know it was possible to remove from Crusade target list... I thought you could only move cities to the end of the list so when HRE is the first Crusaded they are still on the list. If they can be taken off... excommunication will lead to most of their neighbors fighting them- don't need the extra Crusade armies there as well and then you don't have 2 armies from England, Scotland, Teutons, Portugal, Aragon, Castile, Sicily... should decrease the attacking stacks by 1/3 or so- I think HRE still lose this battle but more slowly. Buff it a tiny bit or redo some areas of map to make it easier for HRE armies to move and harder to invaders and its much better.

I believe if you go into your base folder and open up the regions text. The cities able to be crusaded on or jihaded on have a label "crusade, or jihad" next to the hidden resources. Delete the crusade and then save and then delete the map and you should be good to go.

[charles the hammer]

I believe if you go into your base folder and open up the regions text. The cities able to be crusaded on or jihaded on have a label "crusade, or jihad" next to the hidden resources. Delete the crusade and then save and then delete the map and you should be good to go.

Yeah its there I was thinking of running a test hands off campaign to see how they do, but cant decide which faction would be a good one to pick.

[Fred Putz]

Yeah its there I was thinking of running a test hands off campaign to see how they do, but cant decide which faction would be a good one to pick.

Go for timurids.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...75#post8247375