Anti-Pope

**The Turk** · January 11, 2011, 07:45 PM

Hi, I was just wondering how exactly this "Anti-Pope" measure works? As England for example, can I swear allegiance to the Anti-Pope of Germany? I'm just really confused how this works. And other than reducing Inquisitors, what other special purpose does the Anti-Pope fulfill? Can you only get him in the Late Campaign?

**Andytheplatypus** · January 11, 2011, 07:50 PM

As far as I know you cant ally yourself with the anti-pope since he isnt a country. I think his only purpose is to kill inquisitors and heretics. I could be wrong.

**Jambat** · January 11, 2011, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by The Turk

Hi, I was just wondering how exactly this "Anti-Pope" measure works? As England for example, can I swear allegiance to the Anti-Pope of Germany? I'm just really confused how this works. And other than reducing Inquisitors, what other special purpose does the Anti-Pope fulfill? Can you only get him in the Late Campaign?

Early or Late Campaign. Basically he is there to destroy Inquisitors and fight off other religious agents. He doesn't work like a faction so you can't join up with another nations A.P., but he's more like a Priest with a unique piety-draining trait.

Basically he's historical flavoring and protection for two factions that can easily find themselves staring at excommunication/heresy a lot. I like the idea tons.

**The Turk** · January 11, 2011, 11:27 PM

ya but he should be able to split the church, and have followers, and only ultimate destruction of one of them, can guarantee the reunification of Christendom. Currently I don't think he does THAT much, the "Anti-Pope" feature does have A LOT of potential though.

**Caesar Clivus** · January 12, 2011, 12:58 AM

A lot of that potential is hard-coded.

**Mojo582** · January 12, 2011, 01:54 AM

Didnt the marka team that produced rusichi crack the hard code CC?

**Caesar Clivus** · January 12, 2011, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo582

Didnt the marka team that produced rusichi crack the hard code CC?

For what exactly?

**Mojo582** · January 12, 2011, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Caesar Clivus

For what exactly?

It was awhile ago since ive read their forums CC,but i remember in one of there threads how he was explaining that in order to make certain changes in the game they had to break into the hardcode,i cannot remember what they wanted to do this for but im fairly sure thats what was mentioned,would have to talk to one of the team members to find out the details.

**The Turk** · January 12, 2011, 02:36 AM

well I mean, then whats the point of having a Anti-Pope? I'm just confused how you took the concept of the Anti-Pope and gave it irrelevant abilities. It should cause a split in the church. There should be an event, where you have the option to declare yourself friendly of the Anti-Pope OR the Pope in Rome, and then a forced war triggers (like when you declare your participation in a Crusade, you automatically declare war against the cities occupants), and if you capture the enemy Pope, the Pope you are fighting for, becomes the sole Pope again. Or something along those lines, would make much more sense, for this type of scenario.

**Makrell** · January 12, 2011, 02:43 AM

Well he could change the religion in the excommunicated faction to real catholic or something, then that religion could use the apachean warcry and go to war, other factions would get the lithuania script when the anti-pope event happens

**Jambat** · January 12, 2011, 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by Makrell

Well he could change the religion in the excommunicated faction to real catholic or something, then that religion could use the apachean warcry and go to war, other factions would get the lithuania script when the anti-pope event happens

Problem with that is what happens when you reconcile? Suddenly your lands are using opposite religion, which will cause a massive headache. Beyond the headache of trying to code that.

I don't even think they can give you the option to decline reconciliation after a leaders death. You'd have to be at war with the Papal States and stay that way for eternity.

I like the idea, I just don't see how it's possible.

**Makrell** · January 12, 2011, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by Jambat

Problem with that is what happens when you reconcile? Suddenly your lands are using opposite religion, which will cause a massive headache. Beyond the headache of trying to code that.

I don't even think they can give you the option to decline reconciliation after a leaders death. You'd have to be at war with the Papal States and stay that way for eternity.

I like the idea, I just don't see how it's possible.

But if the lithuania script reappers after faction leaders death? is that possible

**gracul** · January 12, 2011, 04:50 AM

He's there for the flavour and because of 2 good reasons - heretics and inquisitors.
Having a war because you declare support for Antipope is complete nonsense history-wise (or i just don't know something).

**Asterix** · January 12, 2011, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by gracul

He's there for the flavour and because of 2 good reasons - heretics and inquisitors.
Having a war because you declare support for Antipope is complete nonsense history-wise (or i just don't know something).

are inquisitors more common in 6.4, cuz i never had a problem in 6.3 with them. ever, really. it doesn't make sense to make an anti-inquisitor weapon if there are no inquisitors.

**The Turk** · January 12, 2011, 05:56 AM

Ok, well for the record, the Anti-Pope had nothing to do with inquisitors or heretics, I'm saying there is a lot of untapped things you can do with the Anti-Pope, and just having him there to bust Heretics, is useless for his position. Just have a bishop for each faction, which can upgrade really fast, like you already have, and have HIM as the heretic/ inquisition buster, but other than that, the current deal with the Anti-Pope is kind of badly represented.

**The Turk** · January 12, 2011, 06:15 AM

Forget about the "other religion" idea (out of curiosity though, are the number of religions you can get hard coded?); I was more suggesting that depending on which Pope you ally yourself with, you declare war against all those who believe in the other Pope. And to end this war, and declare the new Pope, you need to conquer that other Pope's homebase, whether its Clermont (Avignon would have been better in this case), or Rome. And FINALLY we will get an excuse to invade Rome (well, if you support the Anti-Pope)

**gracul** · January 12, 2011, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by The Turk

Forget about the "other religion" idea (out of curiosity though, are the number of religions you can get hard coded?); I was more suggesting that depending on which Pope you ally yourself with, you declare war against all those who believe in the other Pope. And to end this war, and declare the new Pope, you need to conquer that other Pope's homebase, whether its Clermont (Avignon would have been better in this case), or Rome. And FINALLY we will get an excuse to invade Rome (well, if you support the Anti-Pope)

In both of the catholic shizms there was no WAR, ever. Noone ever invaded Rome or Avignon "in the name of the Antipope".
Countries would just support one of the Popes, and listen to his words/bills he issued, as simple as that.
The Antipope is just more of a 'flavour' feature, you can have no priests in the game too and it will still be mtw...

**The Turk** · January 12, 2011, 09:49 AM

Yes I realize that; but kingdoms did ally themselves with the Pope they were friends with. For example the English allied with the Roman Pope, while the Scottish allied with the French Pope (and the Irish). The Poles allied themselves with the Roman Pope, while the Germans allied themselves withe the French Pope (I believe); so yes they did declare an alliance based on their diplomatic situation; so fine they don't need to declare instant war, but there should be negative diplomacy. I'm just saying, that with the inclusion of the Anti-Pope more should be added to satisfy this historical event. Also when does the Anti-Pope claimant die out? Or does it last forever?

**gracul** · January 12, 2011, 10:28 AM

When the faction gets reconciled, the Antipope drops his claims.
As to faction relation change, yes i can script that in (factions would either support Antipope or Pope with 50% random chance, since AI won't be able to make it's own 'judge') and that could give them a relations boost or further relations decline... but im very concerned then about the balance of the region. HRE or France are the BIG players in western Europe. Right now HRE is still a little 'underbalanced' however if i boost their relations with random catholic factions - they will surely dominate over western Europe..

**Navajo Joe** · January 12, 2011, 10:55 AM

So are we proposing that if excommunicated factions have a 50% chance to support the antipope, that if they opt to support will they form an alliance with all other excomms who accept the antipope. Gracul if HRE are stronger, they will be able to hold the Romans on the Eastern front. I never seen France dominate anything yet, although I am sure I will be corrected