New, got a question

[Cheomesh]

I never really got into the original M2TW, but I have just started SS and I am liking it (RR,RC, Savage, Perm Towers). Just starting out as (of all horrible choices) Scotland and I thought this would be the place to ask a few very basic questions. Particularly, they're about unit profiles and combat.

How do combat units work? That is, when say two units collide, how is combat calculated?

What does "Attack" and "Charge Bonus" really mean? What does weapon type mean in terms of the game? RR/RC's guide said that sword units (specifically) have a markup - do swords (in general) have a bonus of some kind? Or do swords units in this mod have something special to warrant a markup?

I recall shield defense is full vs non gunpowder missiles (and I assume siege equipment) and attacks from the front 180, but not counted from the rear. Defense Skill was half vs missiles (in general), and armor counted so long as the attacker didn't have the "Good vs armor" or "Ignores Armor" bit (the former which cut it in half). But how does defense calculate against attack? Is it all done man to man or is the "unit" just a single "attacking entity" that has unit members standing in as HP?

What does unit quality mean? I read the things in RC/RR's guide, but while it states that quality effects cost, it doesn't really tell me what the qualities DO.

And what does unit experience give a unit?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks,

M.

[Hadrian I]

For every three chirvions a unit earns, it gains +1 on attack, and theres a max of nine chirvions, bronze , silver, gold.
Quality I believe, the higher quality the better moral and statistics of the unit, and the lower is vice versa.
The rest unfortuantly, I can't give you a direct answer on.

Signed

Hadrian.

[k/t]

Experience gives higher attack, morale and accuracy (for missile units).

Quality affects morale and the performance of a unit in combat: how well it stays together, how quickly it responds to orders, and the interval between attacks.

The shield counts at 100% from the front, 50% from the sides, 0% from the back. Skill is 100% except from the back. Armour is always 100%.

AP weapons ignore half the armour value. Missiles ignore the skill value. I'm not sure if gunpowder still ignores the shield.

Attack is the actual swing of the weapon. The charge bonus is the bonus added to the attack when charging. Lances have a low attack and a high charge bonus, because they're not good melee weapons - their power comes from the charge of the horse.

Each weapon type has a basic attack and defense value as well as an interval between attacks. All of these are modified by the quality of a unit. For example, the base attack of a mace is 2. A mace-using unit of Average quality will have an attack of 2 and an attack delay of 10 (this number is made up). A mace-using unit of Superior quality will have an attack of 4 and an attack delay of 8 (made up). A mace-using unit of Elite quality will have an attack of 6 and a delay of 6 (made up). Exceptional will be 8 and 4. Swords work the same way, but they start at 3 attack. These numbers are further modified by any other attributes a unit has: Impetuous = -1 skill, +1 attack; Guard = -1 attack, +1 skill; slung shield = +1 armour, -1 skill; Fanatic = -skill, +attack; etc.

The formula used to determine whether a swing results a fatal blow is unknown (at least to me).

[Ichon]

When units touch it is calculated on each individual in the unit in all cases except charge. It depends on the length of the weapon, the defense vs attack of the 2 units and the animation speed. So some unit wielding a big slow sword might have huge attack but lower defense- if it fights a lot of fast animation medium defense low attack spearmen it will probably not do well as its big attack is wasted against a single spearman while all the spear units nearby get faster attack animation that has less chance of hit but is more frequent and does not need to overcome a high defense value. On the other hand that same big attack 2h sword is fighting a big defense small numbers mounted cavalry- the cavalry attack animation is fairly fast but has to be turned to the side whereas the swords man's large attack has more chance vs high defense value and small numbers of the cavalry.

RC/RR does not change hardcoded just is a guide towards the units stats. So if you read the FAQ in that submod it will explain how Elite is more rare and costs more but the benefits are usually higher morale and +1 attack or something ontop of the base value of that kind of unit. So a base swordsman of certain type might have 3 attack and average morale and stamina. Elite adds +2 attack (superior + elite) good stamina, and excellent morale. Or something close to that as I am just going from memory. I'm not sure if the different qualities affect attack animation speeds.

As for how charges work- I've never read a good explanation but I think it goes something like- mass of the units x charge stat x men in the front rank of the unit x avg speed of the unit divided by some constant number that is modified be the unit being charged mass and speed.

So a unit of infantry running downhill with a 4 charge might get a x1.25 mod for the speed on their charge stat of 4 making it 5 and then their mass of say .8 vs stationery light infantry whose mass of .7 gives(add the .1 difference) .9 x 5 = 4.5 round up to 5 so they can kill that many enemy due to charge. I didn't add men in front rank because I'm not very sure how it calculates it but you can easily see drastic differences in outcome if you form a cavalry into a column rather than a wide front and have them start charge at close distance so they don't get max speed.

A heavy cavalry might mass 1.2 with charge of 12 so 1.2 x 12 vs same .7 light infantry so .5 difference between mass added = 1.7 x 12 = 20.4 x speed bonus of 1.5 at max which = 30.6 and I don't know how the width/contact of impact bonus works so didn't add it. So obviously my numbers are too low here as a full heavy cavalry unit can usually kill 2x or 3x its numbers just due to the charge if its hitting well. But this is the basic idea... so the way to stop heavy cavalry charges is-

1. slow the speed of the charger by messing the pathfinding or tangling another unit with the charging unit as the units tend to act together the higher the cohesion so if 3 out of 45 cavalry get caught in melee with a unit the other 42 cavalry might turn and stop their charge to engage the unit they are entangled with.
2. put equal or higher mass unit in the path of the charge, usually another heavy cavalry unit.
3. put lower mass but faster unit in the path so sometimes light cavalry that hit full speed on charge can stop a heavy cavalry which just started its charge with few losses.
4. lower the relative speed of the charge impact by running the victim (unit being charged) directly away from the charge. If the victim unit has time to reach full running speed and especially is on loose formation or something often the charging cavalry get tangled in the rear units and hits with less impact. I've been able to run weak archers back at the right time and completely end a heavy cavalry charge while only losing the rear rank of the archers- 12% or so. Of course the timing is really hard to do and often the cavalry hit max speed and contact the archers before the archers are even fully turned to run. But if you got nothing else to block the charge with it sometimes works and is usually worth a try.

[Cheomesh]

Quite a good explanation guys, especially you Ichon. Well, I recall hearing that SS on "easy" is actually closer to medium so I have it set to easy. So far (1142AD) its been...easy! As Scotland, I have taken Ireland but am unable to expand due to an alliance with England (early on, to prevent me from having to fight them) and the Pope, who doesn't want me to touch Norway. Wish I had known that before I sent the army but whatever. Should probably go crusading but I couldn't figure out how to make a crusading army.

Ah, I have Galway as a fully upgraded "Wooden Castle". I'm thinking about converting it to a Town. Will I lose all the Castle structures? I am currently thinking I do not need it to be a castle, though it is currently my only other source of border horse. Advice?

M.

[k/t]

Psh, my explanation was better.

There's a button on the settlement page that lets you compare what structures will remain if you convert the settlement.

To join a crusade, you need a general with at least 7 more units. Then when you click him he will have a crusade button.

[Cheomesh]

Any way to get rid of agents? I didn't see a "fire" button on their profile. I have one that is an idiot child producing 0 florin / turn :|.

M.

[Delvecchio1975]

Any way to get rid of agents? I didn't see a "fire" button on their profile. I have one that is an idiot child producing 0 florin / turn :|.

M.

are you talking about a merchant? just try to take another faction's merchant's business, and he'll probably lose - thus dying.

[Cheomesh]

Would that be a hostile act best not done to one's allies?

M.

[Andytheplatypus]

Nope. Merchants arent seen as part of your empire i suppose. They are independent, so unlike assassins, if you fail nothing bad will happen but the merchant dying, usually.

[Jambat]

You might want to download the Medievalopedia and have a read through it. It has some pretty handy information for when you are just starting to get into things.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...medievalopedia

[PaleBlueDot]

Why would you kill a merchant? He has no upkeep. Just let him stay on some resource and give you minimal cash + maybe points towards merchants guild or something.

When the pope keeps threatening you, there are several ways of getting around it. One is to ignore him, pretty easy if you play scotland. You are safe in the highlands. The other way is to have a stack with siege catas ready by the cities you want to take, then attack and take the cities in one turn. When the pope tells you to stop fighting next turn, you just accept his command and wait for whatever amount of time it takes (5 turns?) before you can launch a new attack on other cities.
If you dont have catas obviously this one-turn-assault wont work. But if the pope excommunicates you, its usually pretty easy to bribe your way back in, or get your king killed in battle and you are back into the holy club.

If you just get a rebel settlement around Norway, you can leave it almost unguarded and the norwegians will be tempted to take it. When they do, they will be the aggressor and you might get away with invading their country, at least some times.

[Delvecchio1975]

Why would you kill a merchant? He has no upkeep. Just let him stay on some resource and give you minimal cash + maybe points towards merchants guild or something.

I suppose because you have a limit of merchants you can employ. If he's really an idiot, you might wanna get rid of him so you can train a new one ....

[Cheomesh]

Thanks! Also, I have noticed that I get princesses, and they get betrothed...but I can't figure out how to make them walk on the map. I never see them in any settlement.

M.

[PaleBlueDot]

Thanks! Also, I have noticed that I get princesses, and they get betrothed...but I can't figure out how to make them walk on the map. I never see them in any settlement.

M.

She might be in a nearby AI city, just send an agent to look for her. Princesses can' t see clear the Fog of War, she might have been born when your general was outside of your borders. If so she will spawn in the nearest city, independently of faction (apart from rebels) So just send your agents around all cities near your borders and earlier campaigns.

EDIT: Sorry, ignore what I wrote. Trolling is evil.

[k/t]

Only the daughters of the Leader and Heir will appear as agents on the map - which makes sense, since they're the only princesses. The other women of the nobility of your kingdom only appear in the family tree. No agents ever spawn in other factions' settlements.

You would kill a crappy merchant because even though it says he costs 0 upkeep he's actually costing you 600 a turn by taking the place of a merchant with actual finance skill.

[Cheomesh]

Indeed. Lucky for me he died And then some reb took over my silver, ousting a decent one.

Also, what's the purpose of the Drill Square? Over the Garrison Quarters it only seems to permit a single extra rabble to enter the pool.

M.

[Gogolometro]

Will allow you later to recruit new unit.