Greek/Spartan/Hellenic military traits

[Rex Basiliscus]

Just moved it here for easier use.

[Rex Basiliscus]

I'm using that Athenian chart on Wikipedia, along with descriptions of some military ranks from there as my references as a basis. Once I get some more sources I will add those. If you have any books to recommend on Greek and Hellenistic era (especially regarding military) I would appreciate that.

I have made a quick military ladder for Hellenistic factions and Greeks and Sparta.

Hellenistic factions (including Carthage which used Greek titles and commands in military): tetrarchos > lochargos > taxiarches > strategos

Sparta: tetrarchos > lochargos > polemarchos > stratagos (doric spelling)

Greeks (based on Athenian military ranks): hipparchos (cavalry commander) > phylarchos (in Athens the elected commander of the cavalry provided by each of the city's ten tribes) > taxiarchos (in Athens the elected infantry commander for each of the ten city's tribes), strategos (one of ten elected generals in Athens) > strategos autokrator (in Athens they sometimes elected a strategos autokrator when the operations took place far from home (like Sicily); the one holding this rank had autonomous command and could take decisions without prior consultations with the Athenian Assembly - Alcibiades was elected strategos autokrator for the Sicilian expedition).

This is just a rough "sketch" to see if it would be useable. Also the strategos autokrator should be a very rare rank to achieve, since there were only one at time and only elected in a crisis, far expeditions or if there was a very charismatic politician who could persuade the Assembly to bestow him the title (like Pericles and Alcibiades). Note that these are all progressive ranks (if this is the way you would like them to be). I've also started making some descriptions for them. When I'm finished drafting that, I'll move on to civic careers and some special titles (like "Keeper of the body of Alexandros" or sth like that for the Ptolemaic Egypt).

Here's a draft for Polemarch, Taxiarchos and Lochargos (from what I got on Wikipedia):

POLEMARCHOS: a Polemarch was a military rank used most notably in Sparta. There a Polemarch was the commander of a mora (576 men), one of six in the Spartan army on campaign. On occasion they were appointed to head armies, where outside Lakonia they were on equal power to kings. They were a part of the royal council and the royal escort. They were also responsible for public meals and some civil and juridical tasks.

TAXIARCHOS: in Ancient Greece the military rank of several city-states, except (most notably) Sparta. In Classical Athens there were ten, one for each of the city's tribes, a subordinate to the respective strategos.

LOCHARGOS: military leader of a lochos. The theoretical size of a lochos differs over time and from city-state to city-state. The best surviving description of a lochos is that by Xenophon in his Anabasis, where it consisted of 640 men, however later writers such as Aelian and Arrian use the term lochos as a file of 8-16 men and a lochargos as file leader. Of many Greek lochoi (pl. for lochos), the most famous are the Theban Sacred Band and that of Spartans at Thermopylae (the King's Knights). Most often a number of 300 men formed a lochos.

Going to my University's library of my history department to try and find more about those ranks. I read about many ranks in several novels (don't know if they'd be a good source; Ross Leckie, Steven Pressfield etc), but forgot most of them. Will try to speak to a profesor about that - hope he's a history nut Also, how long should a description be?

[dvk901]

When you do these, could you please do me a favor. Set it up so that factions are separated from each other...Seleucid, Pontus, Pergamon, Free Greeks, Sparta, Ptolemies. The reason I ask this is because I am intent on creating specific trait systems for each faction...especially where they differ from each other. I even want to have specific trait systems for 'cities' like Athens, Massalia, Syracuse, etc. where specific things can be found for them. That may not be military stuff, but would certainly involve political things. This will make it easier when it comes to writing the code for each one, because I can just pick the stuff out of a specific post, rather than hunt for it in one big post with everything in it. I know that's a bit more work, but trust me, it will make it easier in the long run.

[Rex Basiliscus]

Well military wise, there isn't much to differ in terms of different ranks, as after the Persian wars (especially after Alexander's conquest) the world from Spain to India pretty much adopted either Spartan, Athenian or Macedonian rank systems... which in themselves weren't that much different.
I think that during the First Punic War (or maybe even during Pyrrhus' conquest) Sparta sent a general to Carthage to organize their armies. From then on they would have commands and ranks in Greek (Spartan/Doric) language. Before that, during the Peloponessian war, Sparta sent a general to Syracuse to train their army when Alcibiades invaded Sicily. Korinthos sent some reinforcements aswell. I don't think I need to explain what happened to the land between Aegean sea and the Indian Ocean after Alexander's conquest.
I'll try to do as much as possible to do what you ask... I may have some ideas after I've read those books.
As far as civic careers, I should have much more manouvre space, so it shouldn't be that hard to find something.
I'll make a chart on some paper so that I can keep track and organize everything... I only posted these three descriptions to see if they were okay... cause I really haven't done any of them before

[Rex Basiliscus]

I've come up with three more traits that can be used:

• Ostracysm for Greek Cities (unique to Athens - my idea is that if a character loses more than 5000 of his troops, or 5 battles, the citizens of Athens would ostracize him (for 10 years), exile him from Attica, which would give him huge unrest penalty if he stays in a city (if it can be done, in Athens), huge loss of influence, large drop of public security and make him less resistant to bribery; but after ten years, the trait would be removed and the negative bonuses would cease to be, except for some small influence penalty (a new trait), because he was ostracized in the first place)

• Peloponessian League for Sparta (after you conquer the whole of Peloponesse, the faction leader gains ancillary or trait of Hegemon of the Peloponessian League, which would give morale bonus for troops, influence, would lower unrest, improve public security and give some command bonus; it would aslo be great if some troops be made available for Sparta when this trait is acquired - maybe Achaian, or some cavalry ...)

• Spartan Agoge training (after a character comes of age, he should spend at least 4 years (till he's 20) in Sparta because of his agoge; this would make him lose all movement points, but after four years of training, the trait would be replaced by another, saying he fininshed his training and would give: command bonus, morale bonus, large hitpoints bonus for general's bodyguard, small managment bonus, large resistance to bribery and large public security bonus)

• Athenian Epheban training (same as for Spartan Agoge, except there would be different bonuses: small command bonus, small hitpoints bonus for general's bodyguard, large managment bonus, small resistance to bribery and small influence bonus)

• Olympic games (for all Hellenistic factions, Greeks, Spartans and Macedonians; this one's pretty much similar to that of EB, but I think it should be in RSII if we want historical accuracy and to give Greeks some depth - three traits:

1. Olympic contender - the character has joined the Olympic games as a contender (must be in a Greek city to acquire this trait; efects: remove movement points)
2. Unsuccesfull contender - the character has lost at the games (effects: his movement points are restored) - this would be the most often trait a character would acquire (maybe 80%?)
3. Olympic Champion - the character has won at the Olympic games (effects: large influence bonus, huge popularity bonus (-Unrest), large troop morale bonus)

These are all just rough drafts, I'll make descriptions later. Bonuses and all can be changed, this is just my idea of how it might be.

[swhunter]

Very good Rex

[Rex Basiliscus]

Thanks! Nice to get approval from the mod's Spartan researcher

[dvk901]

Very good Rex

SW, can you tell me where your Spartan stuff for traits was? I can't find it.

[Rex Basiliscus]

Some new stuff I came up with after reading some material:

• Seleucid Regional Titles:
  
  1. Satrap of Babylonia (Babylon, Seleucia, Charax, Susa and Opis)
     
  2. Satrap of Media (Ecbatana and Rhagae)
     
  3. Satrap of Persia (Persepolis, Tabae and that other one who's name I can't remember)
     
  4. Strategos of Syria (Antiocheia, Laodikeia, Heliopolis and Damascus)
     
  5. (after conquered) Strategos of Anatolia (Sardis, Gordion, Apameia should be the key cities for this one, although others like Ephesos, Halikarnassos and the other two Ptolemaic holdings in Asia Minor could be included)
  
  

Spoiler for Historical background: 

The Seleucids have adopted the Persian admistrative system, but also improved and changed it. In the early Seleucid rule, the empire had around 30 (I'm not 100% sure) satrapies, which were further divided into epharchies and toparchies. However after Antiochus I. Theos, the Seleucids began losing much of their eastern regions after the revolts of Parthia and Baktria. The number of satrapies shrunk constantly until the rule of Antiochus III. After the revolts of satraps of Media (Molon) and his brother, the satrap of Persia (Alexandros), Antiochus went on an expedition east and supressed the rebellion. After that he continued into Parthia (which he subdued to a vassal state) and Baktria (the same). In a battle against Baktrian king, he was wounded in the mouth and lost many teeth. After Baktria was subdued (at least nominally) he went east and made an alliance with the Indian king Sophagasenus.
The eastern expedition was apart from massive tributes which included elephants from India and grain from Baktria unsuccesfull and were lost after his defeats in the West.
When he returned from his expedition, the Greeks hailed him as King of Kings - Megas Basileus and gave him the same epithet as that of Alexander - the Great.
Administratively he reduced the number of satrapies, but increased those of epharchies and toparchies to further reduce the powers of satraps. He changed the title of satrap to strategos (mainly in the western regions of the empire) and gave the holder of that title civil and military power.
So instead of having satraps, the western regions (Syria and potentialy Anatolia) will have strategoi (sry my Greek is bad ).
This is mainly from Strabo and Polybius I think.

• Hellenistic Leader's Cult:
  
  • Seleucids - not much is known about a specific leader's cult except for that of Seleucus I., who was deified by his son Antiochus I. as Zeus Nikator, thus the epithet Seleucus Nikator. There were also Antiochus I. Soter, Antiochus II. Theos etc, which were all worshiped in some way; the trait could be simply Worshiped as a God
  
  

• 
  
  • Ptolemies - the Ptolemaic rulers as pharaohs of Egypt used every Egyptian title that the pharaohs of old had - including Son of Ra
  
  

• Strategos Autokrator tes Hellados- this is the correct title of the Leader of the Corinthian league (now it's just Hegemon) for the Macedonian traits made by Jon Arbuckle

• Epitropos - regent/protector of the kingdom; my idea is that if the royal dynasty is ended by the death of the only character "of age" (e.g. Philip V in the Macedon campaign), the heir apparent (Hippostratos in Mac camp) would get this trait, as opposed to acquiring the throne imediately. If it can be done, he should get this trait alone and then his succesors the title of kings, thus forming a new dynasty. If not, then both King and Regent. This is for all Hellenistic Factions.

• Founder of the Royal Dynasty - every Epitropos (or his son) would also get this trait when their families become the new royal dynasty. Similarily to the trait Macedonian Prince by Jon Arbuckle, there would be also Prince of Seleukeia, Prince of Pergamon, Scythian Prince, Arvernian Prince (the last two in some sort) etc connected to this trait (and the holder of it).

• King of Asia - after Alexander defeated Darius III at Gaugamela, he proclaimed himself as King of Asia. If a player (in Mac camp) emulates this achievement and takes Babylon, the fac leader would get the title of King of Asia

• Archon Sikelias (Ruler of Sicily) - this title could be used in Greek campaign and later in Syracusan one as well. The idea is that if a general conquers Lilybaeum (because theoretically this would be the last city on Sicily they would go after), he would be the saviour of the Greeks on Sicily (historically Dyonisius was proclaimed as Archon Sikelias after he defeated the Carthaginians and limited them to one city on Sicily - Motya).

• Greek "Good Leader" traits:
  
  1. Benevolent Ruler (this trait is already in RSII)
  2. (there should be another level before the next two)
  3. Eurgetes ("Benefactor"; historically Ptolemy III. Eurgetes)
  4. Philhellenos (historically Alexander I. Argeades)
  
  

The 3rd and the 4th would give a character epithets (e.g. Antiochus Eurgetes, Telephos Philhellenos) and would be acquired very hard. They would give great law and happiness bonuses, but would be limited to faction leaders.

• Koine Eirene ("common peace") - the term was used in Greece after a peace treaty between two great powers was announced; simultaneously the whole of Greece was to be at peace. Historically the Athenians and Spartans during the Peloponessian War (Peace of Nikias), Philip II., after the establishment of the Corinthian League, and many other rulers used this term to announce the end of hostilities among the Greeks (only in Greece itself).
  This trait would be acquirable to the faction leader of Macedon, Sparta, Greek Cities, Pergamon, Seleucids, Ptolemies and possibly Rome. It would be available if one of these factions conquers the whole of Greece.

Spoiler for Description: 

The King (for Macedon and Sparta) / Assembly (for Greeks) have constructed a peace treaty with the defeated side and announced koine eirene ("common peace") among all the Greek states. During this peace all conflicts between Greeks are forbidden, as well as any violent change of political systems. All Greeks can navigate freely on the seas. Autonomy is given and recognized to all Greek poleis (cities). The King/Assembly acts as ... (what's the term for the one that "monitors"/takes care that the terms are met...?) and any violation of it is punishable as treason.

Again, these are just my ideas - descriptions will come later when I'm finished with my exames (end of January).

[swhunter]

SW, can you tell me where your Spartan stuff for traits was? I can't find it.

Nuts i have to dig for them.
OK DVK i will look.

[swhunter]

Rex let me know if this helps.
I cant find my notes for the Spartan traits which i did sometime back.
But i found some sources that gave me my ideas. which i researched.

The ideology of Sparta was oriented around the state. The individual lived (and died) for the state. Their lives were designed to serve the state from their beginning to the age of sixty. The combination of this ideology, the education of Spartan males, and the disciplined maintenance of a standing army gave the Spartans the stability that had been threatened so dramatically in the Messenean revolt.

Paradoxically, this soldier-centered state was the most liberal state in regards to the status of women. While women did not go through military training, they were required to be educated along similar lines. The Spartans were the only Greeks not only to take seriously the education of women, they instituted it as state policy. This was not, however, an academic education (just as the education of males was not an academic education); it was a physical education which could be grueling. Infant girls were also exposed to die if they were judged to be weak; they were later subject to physical and gymnastics training. This education also involved teaching women that their lives should be dedicated to the state. In most Greek states, women were required to stay indoors at all times (though only the upper classes could afford to observe this custom); Spartan women, however, were free to move about, and had an unusual amount of domestic freedom for their husbands, after all, didn't live at home.

Spartan society was divided into three main classes. At the top was the Spartiate, or native Spartan, who could trace his or her ancestry back to the original inhabitants of the city. The Spartiate served in the army and was the only person who enjoyed the full political and legal rights of the state. Below the Spartiates wer the perioeci , or "dwellers around or about." These were foreign people who served as a kind of buffer population between the Spartans and the helots. Because of this vital function, they were accorded a great deal of freedom. Most of the trade and commerce carried out in Sparta were performed by the perioeci . At the bottom, of course, were the helots.

Spartan government was an odd affair, but its overwhelming characteristic was stability . The Spartans, in fact, had the most stable government in the history of ancient Greece (some historians call this stability, "political stagnation"). At the top of government was the monarchy; the monarchy, however, was a dual monarchy. Below the monarchy was a council which was composed of the two kings plus twenty-eight nobles, all of whom were over sixty, that is, retired from the military. The council debated and set legislative and foreign policy, and was the supreme criminal court. Below the council (or above it), was an assembly of all the Spartiate males (a democracy, in other words) that selected the council and approved or vetoed council proposals. Above them all, however, was a small group of five men known as the ephorate . For all practical purposes, Spartan government was the ephorate, for these five men led the council, ran the military, ran the educational system, ran the infant selection system, and had veto power over everything coming out of the council or the assembly. They even had power to depose the king; however, they needed powerful divine proof (in the form of omens or oracles) to exercise this power. So what kind of government was Spartan government? It was a democratic timocratic monarchical oligarchy. Chew on that a few times.

The anxiety-ridden situation with the helots led the Spartans to fear even their neighbors, who were often sticking their spoons in that pot to brew up trouble. So in the sixth century BC, the Spartans began to set their military sights on neighboring states. However, when they conquered their neighbor, Tegea, they set up a truce with them rather than annex their land and people. They demanded instead an alliance. Tegea would follow Sparta in all its foreign relationships, including wars, and would supply Sparta with a fixed amount of soldiers and equipment. In exchange, the Tegeans could remain an independent state. This was a brilliant move on the part of the Spartans. In a short time, Sparta had formed alliances with a huge number of states in the southern part of Greece (called the Peloponnesus), and had become the major power in Greece when the Persians invaded in 490 BC. Their power eclipsed that of even their powerful neighbor in the north, Athens.


THE SPARTAN SYSTEM (Agoge)

• EUNOMIA: "Good Order" The Spartan name for their way of life (constitution)
• AGOGE "Training" The Spartan name for their system of physical, social, intellectual and moral education of the citizen.

• Lacedaemonians: The inhabitants of the territory belonging to the Spartan state, the valley of the Eurotas River in s. central Peloponnese and other conquered territory (Messenia). `Lacedaemonian' sometimes means any inhabitant, but sometimes is also used loosely to mean `real' Spartan full citizens, Spartiates: A Spartiate IS a Lacedaemonian, but not every Lacedaemonian is a Spartiate.
• Spartan: Technically, an inhabitant of the POLIS called "Sparta", which was really an amalgamation (SYNOECISM) of five villages or townships inside the geographical area called Lacedaemonia. When used loosely, the term Spartan meant a Spartiate, full citizen.
• Spartiate: The word used to refer to a full citizen of the polis of Sparta, who had gone through the AGOGE and was serving in the Spartan military (also his female relatives). Not every Spartan was a Spartiate. The total number of Spartiates was never more than 9,000 in a population of 225,000+ Lacedaemonians and subjects. By the 4th cent. B.C. the number was down to around 750. The Great Earthquake (ca. 465) and the Great Peloponnesian War (432-404) had a great deal to do with this.
• PERIOIKOI: `Those dwelling round about': natives of Lacedaemonia who did not have full citizen rights; farmers and merchants mostly perioikoi.
• HELOTS: conquered subjects used as serfs, both in the Eurotas valley and in Messenia to the west; legally they were enemies of the State and subject to arbitrary brutal treatment. They were the property of the Spartan State.

KINGS:



TWO kings! Two royal families (Agiads, Eurypontids), [Archagetai] both claiming descent from HERAKLES, the cultural hero and ancestor of the Dorians. Kings served for life, and the office was hereditary; but kings had to be trained in the Agoge too.



Kings were:

• -MILITARY figures: leaders of the army (after a famous dispute in 508 B.C. two kings were not allowed to go out with the same military force).
• -POLITICAL figures: presiding officers in the GEROUSIA, the Spartan Senate, kings also had veto power over the doings of the Spartan Assembly (Apella)
• -RELIGIOUS figures: priests of special cults of certain gods (Zeus Hellenios and Athena Hellenia)

GEROUSIA:



The "Old Men": 28 Spartiates over the age of 60 (that is, beyond the age for military service) + the two kings (= 30). The Gerontes (Senators) were elected by the Assembly of Spartiates for life. In fact they controlled much of the public business and decided on what the Assembly could discuss (the PROBOULEUTIC function); they could also veto actions taken by the Assembly
EPHORS:



5 Spartiate "Overseers", elected (?) annually by the Assembly. The only source on this point says that they were "selected" (haireisthai). Any Spartiate could be EPHOR. They had financial, judicial, and administrative powers--even over the Kings and Gerontes! Two Ephors always went with a king on campaign to control arrogance and to protect the interests of the whole State. They manage a kind of teen-Gestapo called the KRYPTEIA ('Secret Service').
ECCLESIA:



the Spartiate Assembly, men above 18; could only vote YES or NO, (by making noise); were subject to veto. Could only meet on summons, and only discuss what was submitted to them.

http://www.csun.edu/~hcfll004/sparta-c.html

IN Summery


Sparta was ruled by two kings. These kings would lead the army in times of war. In addition to the kings, there were five ephors (magistrates) that were elected from aristocratic families. Sparta also had a council that created laws. The council was made up of the two kings and twenty-eight elders. The elders had to be sixty years old or older to qualify for the position. These leaders took the laws to an assembly made up of citizens for an up–or-down vote without discussion or alterations. The only way to become a citizen of Sparta was to be a descendent of the original Doric invaders who settled the city. This requirement caused the number of citizens usually to not exceed six or seven thousand at any time. Non-citizens outnumbered citizens, but they were kept in check by the strong military that the Spartan government had created.

[swhunter]

If we can build up trait for trainning and staying in the Agoge

THE SPARTAN SYSTEM (Agoge)

• EUNOMIA: "Good Order" The Spartan name for their way of life (constitution)
• AGOGE "Training" The Spartan name for their system of physical, social, intellectual and moral education of the citizen. Adding in the called the KRYPTEIA ('Secret Service').
  ECCLESIA:

• Lacedaemonians: The inhabitants of the territory belonging to the Spartan state, the valley of the Eurotas River in s. central Peloponnese and other conquered territory (Messenia). `Lacedaemonian' sometimes means any inhabitant, but sometimes is also used loosely to mean `real' Spartan full citizens, Spartiates: A Spartiate IS a Lacedaemonian, but not every Lacedaemonian is a Spartiate.
• Spartan: Technically, an inhabitant of the POLIS called "Sparta", which was really an amalgamation (SYNOECISM) of five villages or townships inside the geographical area called Lacedaemonia. When used loosely, the term Spartan meant a Spartiate, full citizen.
• Spartiate: The word used to refer to a full citizen of the polis of Sparta, who had gone through the AGOGE and was serving in the Spartan military (also his female relatives). Not every Spartan was a Spartiate. The total number of Spartiates was never more than 9,000 in a population of 225,000+ Lacedaemonians and subjects. By the 4th cent. B.C. the number was down to around 750. The Great Earthquake (ca. 465) and the Great Peloponnesian War (432-404) had a great deal to do with this.
• PERIOIKOI: `Those dwelling round about': natives of Lacedaemonia who did not have full citizen rights; farmers and merchants mostly perioikoi.
• HELOTS: conquered subjects used as serfs, both in the Eurotas valley and in Messenia to the west; legally they were enemies of the State and subject to arbitrary brutal treatment. They were the property of the Spartan State. This would kinda change because the new sparta would allow helots into the army. But as pike-men or lower positions in the army.
• Also a trait for Not Spartan leadership/ foreigners that would have agreeable traits and disagreeable traits but are bound by treaty as the Sparta Empire expands.

[Rex Basiliscus]

I'll try to come up with a career system for Spartans, based on that. I'll be away for two days and I'll have exams on Saturday and Monday, but after that I'm free to work on the descriptions.

[swhunter]

Great. Thanks rex.
DVK this is all i could find.
From the books i read these sites were correct.

[TTRouble]

Rex,

You might also want to consider these as well:
Basileos Antiochou- King of Antioch
King of Syria - default trait for all Seleucid leaders or if you capture those territories.
Pogon "bearded" - apparantely Seleucus II was captured by the Parthian's at some point and upon his release had a grown a beard similar to them and was thus given that title.
Hegemon "leader" - The Hypaspists were commanded by a Hegemon, so I think the King of any Hellenic faction that can recruit that unit should get that trait. Also if a General leading an army that has the Hypaspists as a unit then they should also get this trait.
"Defender of Greece" and " Great Liberator of the Greek world" - "Mithridates VI extended his propaganda from "defender" of Greece to the "great liberator" of the Greek world as war with Roman Republic became inevitable".

"Defender of Greece" - get this trait when you control all of the greek mainland.
" Great Liberator of the Greek world" - get this trait if you control at least Asia Minor + all of the Greek mainland.

[dvk901]

Good ideas...keep them all coming. It would also be neat to have some ideas about Greek 'Professions'....like the Roman Mercatores, etc.

[Rex Basiliscus]

Some more stuff I ran into while reading Pressfield's Hot Gates :

• Karneia (the festival of Apollo, during which Spartan armies were forbidden to campaign)
• Childless (if a Spartan Peer was childless, there was almost no possibility he would go on a campaign and thus endangering the existance of his line)
• enomotarchos (Spartan rank of a platoon leader)
• kleros (a Spartiate farmstead - each of the Peers had their own farm where they would cultivate and grow crops... also, before they would embark on a campaign, the Spartans had a "county day" when they would be released from service for one day to "reconnect" with the land of Lacedaemon and their joyous childhoods)
• Mothax (a bastard son of a Peer and a helot, or even full citizens of Sparta, who through misfortune or poverty lost their rank among the Peers, could be plucked from their straits and elevated to this position if deemed worthy)

However this is all classical Sparta, so I don't know how much of this is relevant to this age. But it sure would be fun.

TTrouble, I appreciate your help From one Seleucid-fan to the other, I'm trying to get as much stuff about them as possible into RSII

[swhunter]

Some more stuff I ran into while reading Pressfield's Hot Gates :

• Karneia (the festival of Apollo, during which Spartan armies were forbidden to campaign)
• Childless (if a Spartan Peer was childless, there was almost no possibility he would go on a campaign and thus endangering the existance of his line)
• enomotarchos (Spartan rank of a platoon leader)
• kleros (a Spartiate farmstead - each of the Peers had their own farm where they would cultivate and grow crops... also, before they would embark on a campaign, the Spartans had a "county day" when they would be released from service for one day to "reconnect" with the land of Lacedaemon and their joyous childhoods)
• Mothax (a bastard son of a Peer and a helot, or even full citizens of Sparta, who through misfortune or poverty lost their rank among the Peers, could be plucked from their straits and elevated to this position if deemed worthy)

However this is all classical Sparta, so I don't know how much of this is relevant to this age. But it sure would be fun.

TTrouble, I appreciate your help From one Seleucid-fan to the other, I'm trying to get as much stuff about them as possible into RSII

Great work. Yes we want it as close to our date as possible.
But keep in mind that this is simply: a what if scenario. So do what you think best that fits our new Spartans.
On the preview all can join the army in RS2. But limited to the Spartan Hoplite, and the elite. In the Agage.

Spartan hoplites are but a memory, existing only in honour guards. The Spartan "homoioi" who would man them, are all in the Pike phallanx after the reforms of Kleomenes III at 226-224 BCE.

Promachoi Elite hoplites

Their shield bears the emblem of the Mora of Sparta, and quite rightly so, for it is only in Sparta that the Promachoi are recruited. If the words “best” are to describe some of the Spartans, those Spartans would be the Promachoi.

[McScottish]

Great work. Yes we want it as close to our date as possible.
But keep in mind that this is simply: a what if scenario. So do what you think best that fits our new Spartans.
On the preview all can join the army in RS2. But limited to the Spartan Hoplite, and the elite. In the Agage.

Spartan hoplites are but a memory, existing only in honour guards. The Spartan "homoioi" who would man them, are all in the Pike phallanx after the reforms of Kleomenes III at 226-224 BCE.

As this is so, I was curious. Will their be any ranks along the lines of "Perioikoi Spartiate" or such? Showing that although the man was an outsider he completed the Agoge and has been received into the ranks?

Considering the situation of Sparta in RSII I'd imagine there'd be a few "outside the box" ranks, basically altered ranks from the traditional military system of Sparta. Especially with the Homoioi as equal as anyone else now.

[swhunter]

The only way i can see is this. Sparta did recruit historically mercenaries to fill the ranks in their army. And since all could join the army in RS2. I would imagine there would be some sort of Greek training for those who joined the Spartan empire. But to be a leader of some sort. They would have to undergo Spartan training from youth. Or others in the empire would feel it played favoritism. And it would lessen the Spartan training and respect.
If I was a leader back then. I would evaluate the men with good discipline records, and fighting experience, lotal, and moral. But to join a Agage and to reach the levels of the Spartan elites in cav, pike men, Hoplites and most of all Promachoi Elite hoplites.
I wouldn't want that.
These new recruits would have their own Greek commander and under a Spartan captain or General. They would by placed in all other areas in service instead of being killed.
It would be still very close to how they choice Spartans before. But the ones who didn't pass the tests would be placed in other units for training.
Not the Elites. Or the spartan hoplites class.