What determines who is elected cardinal?

[SirRobin]

I'm playing as the HRE and got to the late period by now. The papacy hates me, naturally, despite my attempts at staying on the good side of the Holy Father.

I noticed that I have no cardinals, and that other factions get priests, with less piety than some of mine, elected into the office instead.

So, is it because I have so low standing with the papacy that they disregard my pious priests?

Causing a vicious cycle where I will never have good standing because I have no cardinals, leading to bad standing, leading to no cardinals?

Or is something else at work here - maybe a hardcoded loss of pope-goodwill based on amount of provinces I control, a bit like how the senate eventually turns against the player in Rome:TW?


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[chris7ian]

Have you been excommunicated? That will hurt a lot. Plus standing prolly affects who gets promoted but not always the determining factor. As the HRE I have had maxed Bishops passed over for Frenchies will lower ratings. Money is so easy to get in SS as the HRE after 10-15 turns you should be able to gift the pope a 1000 per turn without hampering your economy too much. Otherwise invade Rome and let the Pope know who the Holy one is.

There are disadvantages for bigger empires so this may be one as well as you said.

[SirRobin]

Have you been excommunicated? That will hurt a lot. Plus standing prolly affects who gets promoted but not always the determining factor. As the HRE I have had maxed Bishops passed over for Frenchies will lower ratings. Money is so easy to get in SS as the HRE after 10-15 turns you should be able to gift the pope a 1000 per turn without hampering your economy too much. Otherwise invade Rome and let the Pope know who the Holy one is.

There are disadvantages for bigger empires so this may be one as well as you said.

I don't find money easy to come by at all. After a rough start and many setbacks and near-disasters, I managed to expand the HE to the border of Iberia while holding on to central europe still. The only reason I have any money to spend is because I also have two little crusader states in Anatolia where I am churning out merchants and sitting on all the good resources in the Levant. And still I find I run out of funds each turn and have to choose carefully what to build and to recruit.

1000 coins a turn would be possible, but would hamper my war efforts and make it even more tricky to keep the empire standing. If I sent the old man 200 coins a turn, would it sway him in any way?

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Cardinal1

What determines who is elected cardinal?

Basically the Bishops/priests with the most piety become Cardinals as selected by the Pope. Now how to make High piety Clergy.

Welcome to Pope University.....

1. Having priests in lands with a different religion gains piety.

2. Making your priests in one city, then getting a Theologians Guild there.

3. In this same city building your way to a Huge Cathedral ASAP.

4. Theologians Guild + Cathedral or larger = "Cardinal University."

5. Good places for your Pope University....

Leon - Generals get plus two piety from visiting there.

Paris - Notre Dame. Your can start to build it around turn 70 I think...

Milan - that way you don't waste a port city that could have a merchants Guild.

There's a few threads on this I'll post them if I can find them.... Oh and btw I've had several Cardinals made while I was excomunicated....

[Andytheplatypus]

Im also playing as HRE at the moment and I havent had a single cardinal elected to office. Then again I am at war with almost every faction..... thats probably why.

[Polycarpe]

Reputation, excommunication, high piety for both generals and priests, alliances (especially the pope!! and friends of the pope) are factors that affect the chance for cardinals to be elected.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Im also playing as HRE at the moment and I havent had a single cardinal elected to office. Then again I am at war with almost every faction..... thats probably why.

If you check the board, I think you will find that other factions priests probably have higher piety than yours...

Hmmm...Now again I play M/M so I don't know if settings would influence this or not. I mean the AI's hate to wards the human player extending to
Cardinal election prejudice...I doubt it but.......

[SirRobin]

If you check the board, I think you will find that other factions priests probably have higher piety than yours...

Nope. There's one fat little cardinal sitting pretty there with his 6 piety, while my witch hunter of 8 piety is out there toiling with the good Lord's work

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Nope. There's one fat little cardinal sitting pretty there with his 6 piety, while my witch hunter of 8 piety is out there toiling with the good Lord's work

Well then hark I hear the sound of the script readers foot falls as they appraoch ....

Reputation, excommunication, high piety for both generals and priests, alliances (especially the pope!! and friends of the pope) are factors that affect the chance for cardinals to be elected.

I had'nt considered these...


Now as a Catholic I always pay the Pope so that I have max Rep with him even when excommunicated...

while my witch hunter of 8 piety is out there toiling with the good Lord's work

Thus enter the script readers .... to explain....

[Andytheplatypus]

If you check the board, I think you will find that other factions priests probably have higher piety than yours...

Hmmm...Now again I play M/M so I don't know if settings would influence this or not. I mean the AI's hate to wards the human player extending to
Cardinal election prejudice...I doubt it but.......

I did. I have quite a few priests with full or almost full bar of piety and 0 cardinals. I finally wiped out france and 3 of their cardinals died so hopefully there will be a space for some of mine.

I doubt it though, especially since my king has 0 piety and has been excommunicated for about 50 years.

[chris7ian]

I found 1000 coins = a bump of 1 point on papal relations. So basically 1000 = .1 out of the 1.0 - -1.0 scale. Any less than that is a waste.

What settings do you use. I dont recruit many merchants with the HRE but I build roads, markets, ports, etc early and then upgrade military later. I can bank like 10,000 each turn after fully maxing out recruitment (good units only) and buildings by turn 30. I would suggest not to worry about the church and forcus on economies. One I have antwerp through stettin, Marseille though Vienna, and all of Italy minus Venice and Rome, I'm a cash cow. I buy cities and rebel generals drop down to zero cash and then I'm back over 100,000 in 10 turns. I normally use Savage AI but with 4 turns per year, and the largrest Empire, i get into a lot of wars so I'm tryin the Lusted AI currently. Savage was the same for me though as far as earning potential.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

I found 1000 coins = a bump of 1 point on papal relations. So basically 1000 = .1 out of the 1.0 - -1.0 scale. Any less than that is a waste.

What settings do you use. I dont recruit many merchants with the HRE but I build roads, markets, ports, etc early and then upgrade military later. I can bank like 10,000 each turn after fully maxing out recruitment (good units only) and buildings by turn 30. I would suggest not to worry about the church and forcus on economies. One I have antwerp through stettin, Marseille though Vienna, and all of Italy minus Venice and Rome, I'm a cash cow. I buy cities and rebel generals drop down to zero cash and then I'm back over 100,000 in 10 turns. I normally use Savage AI but with 4 turns per year, and the largrest Empire, i get into a lot of wars so I'm tryin the Lusted AI currently. Savage was the same for me though as far as earning potential.

CharlesV {1}

Good Lord that's grotesque..... Betcha ya couldn't pull that off with gracul AI though...

OT: So how about sinking some of that loot into Cardinal making...

[SirRobin]

What settings do you use. I dont recruit many merchants with the HRE but I build roads, markets, ports, etc early and then upgrade military later. I can bank like 10,000 each turn (...)

I play on M/M and also invest heavily in infrastructure and economy. I have to keep the wolves at bay though, so I naturally also build up some castles. Taxes generally on high or very high. Not getting the massive returns you do, but then again I haven't conquered Italy.

[chris7ian]

I do build up my cardnials afterward. First I build financial, then churches when I want to build up a governor with chivalry, otherwise I focus on military. I get to where I have the Pope and the next 4 highest cardinals. Plus since I'm the HRE i have either vassal Rome or allied to it and have access rights, so eventually all my Generals/Family make the Pilgrimage once they are done being governors. +3 piety and my Empire is truly Holy after that is done.

[Ichon]

Certain traits seem to be most attractive for Cardinals... heresy or unorthodox traits usually make Cardinal less likely. AI has their priests get immunity to heresy I believe so right there they get an advantage.

As for the fact that factions with many Cardinals have good relations with Pope- its more likely that the converting they are doing is what raises their relations in the first place along with Alliances.

Italian faction ally with Pope and get good relations while Poland, Hungary, and Spanish factions have alot of conversions. Teutons and CS usually have few territories and thus few priests but often manage to get 1 of their 2/3 priests as a Cardinal.

I can fill up College of Cardinals in most Catholic campaigns eventually but the fastest is alliance with Pope or tributes combined with converting lots of regions to get saintly Priests. Excommunication or failed heretic trials works against that as well as pissing contests with Pope's allies so sometimes unless you are roleplaying its better to just ignore Pope and Cardinals.

[chris7ian]

You can also kill neighboring cardinals to eventually get to yours. There is assassinations or the exploit where you surround them and have a unit sit on him.

[chris7ian]

Thats your problem Italy is rich and a true Germans piggy bank. Plus I normally keep my taxes low to max chivalry.

[SirRobin]

Thats your problem Italy is rich and a true Germans piggy bank. Plus I normally keep my taxes low to max chivalry.

Probably the low taxes and chivalrous governors also make your towns grow much quicker, leading to high early revenue. I conquered some provinces in Italy but was slowly but surely ground down by repeated sieges by the Sicilians and eventually thrown out of there. Maybe it's time to revisit Italy soon

[SirRobin]

It gets even stranger: now there is an empty seat in the college of cardinals, but none is elected for it, least of all my good priests .. perhaps because my standing with the pope is low (2 crosses)

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

It gets even stranger: now there is an empty seat in the college of cardinals, but none is elected for it, least of all my good priests .. perhaps because my standing with the pope is low (2 crosses)

On M/M setting? ** scratches head**. Oh...wait a moment, you said two Crosses. Put some fat loot in da Papa's wallet and that should do the trick.
{max out your rep and get you cardinals. Being excomm. does'nt stop this}.