Tiananmen Square

[Sétanta]

What do you think of the Tiananmen Square Massacre? Do the Chinese realized the negative effects of this

[Lee1026]

As I recall, not much came from it.

[RZZZA]

Hmm...I'm not sure, but I seriously doubt it. Communist China is not exactly synonmous with civil/human rights...but if someone can prove me wrong, go for it.

[Sétanta]

As I recall, not much came from it.

I mean in the chinese culture itself
of course the government doesnt even look at the event anymore
but what about all the rebellious students?

[bigfootedfred]

I mean in the chinese culture itself
of course the government doesnt even look at the event anymore
but what about all the rebellious students?

Hmm...

This would have been better served to your point if you had done this on the "Great Leap Forward" or the Cultural Revolution"...
Quite a mess, killed millions. Very big effect on the chinese culture of today..

[MaximiIian]

but what about all the rebellious students?

Well, they're dead, so...they don't really care about anything anymore, now do they?

[RusskiSoldat]

China acted in Tianmen Square like Russia should have in 1991.
Better to get a little international condemnation than full collapse.

[Sétanta]

China acted in Tianmen Square like Russia should have in 1991.
Better to get a little international condemnation than full collapse.

wait...you think the USSR wouldn't have collapsed if the Red Army pulled a Tiananmen on the soviet people?
just clarifying

[TheKwas]

The main problem concerning the protests was that the government did try to accomdate some of the demands later on, and infact made moderate reforms, but the protestors didn't have a set-out agenda, resulting in the student/urban population demanding more socialist and democratic reform to fight corruption, and the rural population demanding more capitalist reform to fight corruption, and any move to either way simply resulted in more protests. Problems with unorganization in the protester ranks were magnified by lack of organization within the government itself concerning what to do. This, of course, doesn't justify the actions of the government, but there were still lessons learned on both sides of the field.

[RusskiSoldat]

wait...you think the USSR wouldn't have collapsed if the Red Army pulled a Tiananmen on the soviet people?
just clarifying

Yep.
A crushed revolt followed by a more conservative leadership (as opposed to Gorbachev's liberal one) would preserve the Union.
Of course some changes would have to be made, but we would survive.

[sephodwyrm]

The guy that opposed the tanks was Wei Jingsheng. He is not dead and is still a politically active "democratic element" that advocates Tibetan independence in China.

All the student leaders of Tiananmen square escaped to the US, Taiwan and other parts of the more developed world except for Wang Dan who gave himself in.

The incident, as RusskiSoldat put it, was a full victory for the conservatives within the CCP. Unfortunately, it also stifled political development in China. If Tiananmen incident hadn't occurred, China would been more free and democratic.

[MaximiIian]

The guy that opposed the tanks was Wei Jingsheng. He is not dead and is still a politically active "democratic element" that advocates Tibetan independence in China.

How'd he survive getting ran over by a tank?

Tiananmen square?
I am fully agree with the government, those crap student leaders shaw die!
BTW, The army did not ordered to kill, they are ordered to get the students out from the square, then as usual, some incident death of sodiers fired on both side.

How did the students kill soldiers if they were unarmed?
The Chinese troops opened fire on the students in the same way and the same reason the Russian troops opened fire on a crowd of protesters on Bloody Sunday, 1905.
They were afraid.

[vikingsiddhu]

Crum...no one in China really want communism except the people in the communist party.

[sephodwyrm]

The thing to note that is before 1989, China was going through a social experience that entailed re-evaluation of the past leaders, the Cultural Revolution and many other mistakes that the CCP had done. The progressivists and reformists elements of the CCP were fighting a winning battle against the conservatives. I see Tiananmen square as a conspiracy co-achieved by people that do not want to see a free China as well as these conservative elements.

It is ok if you want to have a demonstration and want the CCP to change. It is a revolt if you want to topple the government. Students screwed China up with their naive notions of democracy as well as the free world. Judging from Wu'er Kaixii's display of extreme arrogance, most people would have realized that the CCP would crush their opposition. The thing is, what led to this extreme arrogance?

[vikingsiddhu]

Revolt is not necessary to change china. Noncorporation with a totalaristic regime is.

[RusskiSoldat]

The thing to note that is before 1989, China was going through a social experience that entailed re-evaluation of the past leaders, the Cultural Revolution and many other mistakes that the CCP had done. The progressivists and reformists elements of the CCP were fighting a winning battle against the conservatives. I see Tiananmen square as a conspiracy co-achieved by people that do not want to see a free China as well as these conservative elements.

It is ok if you want to have a demonstration and want the CCP to change. It is a revolt if you want to topple the government. Students screwed China up with their naive notions of democracy as well as the free world. Judging from Wu'er Kaixii's display of extreme arrogance, most people would have realized that the CCP would crush their opposition. The thing is, what led to this extreme arrogance?

In the late days of the USSR, the country was in chaos, liberal elements protested and called for democracy, conservative elements deployed army.
Unlike in Tianmen two years earlier, the army refused to do what it was supposed to, leading us to the mess we have now.
Then again the Chinese as a people are far more obedient and have a better sense of duty in relatively peaceful times than the Russians.

[ChineseManchurian]

Tiananmen square?
I am fully agree with the government, those crap student leaders shaw die!
BTW, The army did not ordered to kill, they are ordered to get the students out from the square, then as usual, some incident death of sodiers fired on both side.
My opoinian:
The government did no wrong
The students did no wrong
Those Student Leaders should die in HELL!

[vikingsiddhu]

Thanks for your philiosophy. In your view, MLK should be jailed,and then burnt in hell.

[ChineseManchurian]

Thanks for your philiosophy. In your view, MLK should be jailed,and then burnt in hell. :
China communist guys, dont worry u can ban wikipedia, we trust u(

keep bushing off your nonsense, you know nothing about rest of the world.
just make sure you don't show up in China, you will feel sorry for what you said here.

[vikingsiddhu]

And you do? Thanks for your credential info. You have shown little proof, if at all. Thanks for that, we'll just trust you.
While you're at it, there is a distinction between good buisness leaders and bad ones(morally) Some realize that freedom is stronger than your assumption that everything other people speak is "nonsence"
Whoa...thats a communist leader's reaction.