A note about morale

[Ecthelion]

This is just something to consider. I'm sure you all have heard of this at one point, but I think it is important enough to remind.

Anyway, for those old-timers who remember back to the days when STW first came out and people started complaining about how it was impossible for samurai to flee the field because they fight to the death and all, you know what I'm talking about when I say that samurai did run and did retreat.

The concept of victory or death was an Edo period invention. In the Warring States period, there was no such notion. Armies engaged and retreated when necessary. True, since samurai were professional warriors who took their work very seriously, they were less inclined to rout than their European contemporaries. Even the ashigaru were less inclined to rout than the average European levy.

But this has to do more with the general Japanese fatalism with which they approached their lives. People in Japan were just not as afraid of death as their contemporaries. This is evidenced from their poetry, which was, of course, their main form of literary expression. The famous and quite fatalistic verses from the Atsumori that Nobunaga was said to have sung at all the important events in his life (including the occasion when he learned of the death of Shingen as seen in Kagemusha) are a perfect representation of this.

So definitely allow units to rout but make them substantially less likely to do so.

[Master Kenji Tanegashi]

They were indeed wise men, knowing when to fight and when to retreat. It is vital to not to through your life away. "those who fight and run away, live to fight another day"

[John Wayne]

*snort* Here's a more cynical view of this.

The Hero fights and dies on the frontlines, but the coward runs away and scores with the hero's wife.

[Space Voyager]

Gamewise I wonder what's best. While your infantry does make it out from time to time, the AI infantry is mostly overrun by cavalry. This makes the game easyer than it should be.

Ok, perhaps an "iron rule" I'll make for myself should be to never continue the battle after it is won... But it's so nice to mow the enemy...

[shiki]

Gamewise I wonder what's best. While your infantry does make it out from time to time, the AI infantry is mostly overrun by cavalry. This makes the game easyer than it should be.

Ok, perhaps an "iron rule" I'll make for myself should be to never continue the battle after it is won... But it's so nice to mow the enemy...

e

Acutally, I don't think many men, japanese or european, would not rout when being charged by cavalry.

[Space Voyager]

Acutally, I don't think many men, japanese or european, would not rout when being charged by cavalry.

@Shiki: I wasn't talking about ACTUALL routing, I was talking about it game-wise. The problem is that the AI is much less competent in running down your fleeing units than you are in running down it's units. So when the AI army runs, there is a good chance you'll run down all it's men (enough for the army to dissapear), but when your army routs much more soldiers get away.

@Ahiga: I guess you are right. You need to know when to stop the pursuit and give the AI a chance.

[Ahiga]

Even those most devout of warriors do seem to not be 'unbreakable'. I recall something during the Peloponnesian wars that had the Spartans routing due to the Athenian's use of lighter infantry to harass them and be untouchable.

I do think that unless you had a spot-on-record about samurai never routing at all in the period, they should not have unbreakable moral. It would help fuel the misguided notion of Samurai being more like an anime superhero than adept and experienced warriors of their period. I dunno too..if it was in STW, then I wouldn't follow in CA's steps for realism.

Space Voyager, I guess the best way to deal with that is to just have a house rule against it.

[Master Kenji Tanegashi]

Of course, CA now (like many other companies) is swayed itself more toward the gameplay rather than historical accuracy, mainly because that is what sells in today's gaming world. unlike good old Proth, their in it for the denarii. for example Oda Noubunaga in sooo many games(exept kessen 3 :wink: ) is made out to be the EVIL version of the satan.

[antisocialmunky]

You shouldn't worry, most of the Samurai units will stay in combat as long as thier leaders are alive. Notably, only the monks and hatamoto guards will be prone to super high casualties.

[Space Voyager]

You shouldn't worry, most of the Samurai units will stay in combat as long as thier leaders are alive. Notably, only the monks and hatamoto guards will be prone to super high casualties.

That's comforting. If they are bound to loose (AI problems) they should at least give a good account of them before they go instead of being mown like grass.

Sadly one can only affect the enemy morale with difficulty level. Is it possible to be modded so that the enemy gets an even bigger bonus?

[italiano]

"Is it possible to be modded so that the enemy gets an even bigger bonus?"

One way to do this is give bonuses to a building that only the AI is supposed to build (house rule).

[Space Voyager]

I don't like these "hose rules". It is a possibility, though.

I'd like it more if vh difficulty simply added a bigger morale bonus to the enemy.

[italiano]

fwiw I only chase the AI down if they've done something to p*** me off.

[antisocialmunky]

What... you don't cull those endless waves of Eggies?

[antisocialmunky]

A few ideas were thrown out for the late game and what we'll see if we can do it is increase the likelyness for the AI to gain alot of command star traits in the late game.

[John Wayne]

Hmmmmm, couple that with the AI's ability to churn fullstacks of their best on VH/VH then you are DEFINATLY asking for some trouble.