Are permanent alliances possible?

[boxleitnerb]

I am playing the Third Age mod and it is just stupid if historically allied factions are betraying each other. Is there a way to make war between specific factions impossible?

[rebelyell2006]

What would be the point of that? Once you hit the "End Turn" button, the game departs from real history and becomes the Game history. The AI does not follow real history -- it follows scripts that depend on other AI actions and yours. It responds to the strengths, weaknesses and military disposition of its neighbors, its allies and enemies. And even if the game follows real history, there would be no lasting alliances. Would the game be that interesting if factions were restricted in that manner?

But if so, I think the Roman Superfaction from RTW might be implemented. I don't know how.

[Escuratii va bene]

I sure hope they can be somehow, can get annoying when a strong ally can just turn on you from nowhere for no reason

[KingofPoland]

An ally is never realy permanent in M2TW, especially when you're on VH campaign difficulty. By turn 3 Sicily had attacked Rome, by turn 20 the HRE was fighting a 3 front war, by turn ten a half stack of English soldiers attacked me (Scotland) in York and there were something like 4-5 factions that were excommunated by turn 25. CompLete mayhem...

[PrestigeX]

If you want to be allied with another faction, it's always a good idea to regularly give them a gift of money. That always seems to help. I also do other things for them sometimes like give them settlements that are of no particular value to me - besides, they can go there as a buffer zone...

I was allied with the pope as HRE and I had a few full armies on crusade, I gave jerusalem to the pope, sacked damascus, gave to pope, and antioch.... That way, he can bear the brunt of fighting the Muslims....

[SonOfOdin]

Well, your best bet is to give "gifts" to your ally. Get your relations to the highest. However, you should also try to get a buffer zone between you and your allies. It just makes it harder for them to attack you, and you can see if they are advancing your way.

[Old Geezer]

If you cement an alliance with a marriage and you do not take any of the settlements which that AI country is programmed to want for a victory condition. You can keep an alliance for a long time if you also give it money and a settlement occasionally. As Poland I kept an alliance for several hundred years with HRE in an LTC game on very hard, but I just went east and didn't threaten the border with troops or sabotage its buildings or kill its priests. However, once you get to be very powerful the AI factions seem to become suicidally stupid about attacking you and the alliances are just about impossible to keep except with the Pope.

[Ishan]

Are permanent alliances possible?

Yes through modding it is possible.

[King Of Scotland]

Yes through modding it is possible.

Everything's possible when Ishan get's to it

But seriously, it's kinda funny when the Rohan's attack Dwarves and Elves

[Polloasesino]

if you want permanent alliances play stainless steel

[Jambat]

Is there a way to make war between specific factions impossible?

Impossible? No. Practically Impossible? Yes.

*Get the alliance and then camp the diplomat by one of the factions areas, always keep a tribute (even if it's a cheap 100/10 turn) one running.

*Grant and give military rights when they are in combat, send armies and help them fight enemies, gift lands taken back to the allied faction.

*Marry into the lines any chance you get.

*If they ally with other factions, do your best not to get into a scrap with those guys.

I normally pick one...two at most...factions to enter into an Alliance with in the game and as long as something crazy doesn't happen like a called Crusade, or them being Italian, they will never betray me.

[Druvatar De Bodemloze]

yes go into sega/medievalII/data open with notepad desc_sm_factions scroll down to the area for the papal_states change can have family tree from no to yes
do not know why it works but it does ( only exception is when a crusade is called on your capital)

[FootSoldier]

I agree with Old Geezer. I've found it possible to maintain allies for 100's of turns with adjoining borders and open coastlines in vanilla M2TW on vh. The price is territory.

Most players want an alliance to mean a mutual non-aggression pact - for life, regardless of whatever else they do. It doesn't work like that. Nor does the - "I'm the most powerful faction so you'd be mad to attack me" line. Generally it's impossible for a Dread player with a Despicable reputation and an aggressive expansionist policy to keep alliances. Alliances are on the Chivalry path.

Territory is the most important factor. Every faction is trying to expand, and your allies need room to do this. Mostly they need a gift or two of territory to help them. They also seem programmed to go after certain territories, so if you have one they want the alliance is unlikely to last - unless you gift it to them.

After territory it's a combination of the usual suspects ...

Reputation is important. Everyone wants a trustworthy ally, or at least a reliable one. By itself, a Trustworthy reputation will not stop other factions attacking you, including allies. Territory is more important.

Good relations are important - with everyone, not just allies. Keep lots of diplomats, and talk often. Regularly gift money, attacks on the rebels, attacks on whoever you're fighting at the moment, and early on, map information. Even offering a ceasefire which is rejected can improve relations. By itself relations are not enough - a faction with Perfect relations will still attack you over territory. Like getting alliances, it's easy to have Perfect relations at the start of the campaign, but it gets harder as the campaign progresses.

Territory is the critical factor, and alliances last as long as the ally can expand the way they want. When it comes down to just 2 factions left - you and your ally with 53 territories each - yes, the alliance will fold. No alliance is permanent. There can be only one.

So earlier in the campaign it's crucial to identify which territories your ally will always fight over, and to let the ally have them. Often these will be rich territories, or key strategic ones. Some are not obvious.

Example - you're France, and you ally with the Scots, the Danes and the Sicilians.

The Danes must have Antwerp. The Sicilians must have Bologna - and Venice. Tunis would be a bonus. The Scots - killing England will keep them happy for a long time. Then, when they start putting armies in boats, give them Toledo or maybe Pamplona. This will keep them happily fighting the Spanish and the Moors to the end of the game. France can take Zaragoza and Valencia. If France takes Cordoba the Scots will end up locked in.

In this plan - the Danes are fighting the HRE and Poland. Sicily, with Bologna and Venice, has now taken Corinth, and is fighting over the Balkans with Venice and the Hungarians. Scotland is fighting the Spanish and Moors in Iberia. France, the player, can take Tunis and North Africa, then turn east to the Holy Land. At a pinch they might attack Russia, but it's difficult to see the attraction.

Obviously, as player you need conquer with your allies in mind, and restrain yourself over some of the juiciest places.

Take territories just to give to your ally, and clean them up first. Let your ally have their own sphere of influence. If you have a good reputation, and good relations, the ally will usually grant you military access in return for the gift of a key territory - without demanding military access from you. That way you can make sure they can keep what you've given them.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

I am playing the Third Age mod and it is just stupid if historically allied factions are betraying each other. Is there a way to make war between specific factions impossible?

You must go to descr_strat.txt located in your imperial campaign folder and make so changes there (remember to make a back up of your original file):

- faction_standings sicily, 1.0 milan
- faction_standings milan, 1.0 sicily
- faction_relationships sicily, allied_with milan
- faction_relationships milan, allied_with sicily

Repeat for those factions you want to have a permament alliance. I once modified this in such a way that all 'good' factions were allied with eachother and all 'evil' were allied with eachother but I had a HD format and the file is lost

[Ishan]

- faction_standings sicily, 1.0 milan
- faction_standings milan, 1.0 sicily
- faction_relationships sicily, allied_with milan
- faction_relationships milan, allied_with sicily

This script only starts with perfect relationship and alliance it's not permanent and in due time they always break it fight each other, permanent alliance is somewhat typical you have to modify the AI file for it.

[FootSoldier]

Wow Grand Admiral Thrawn - that was an interesting read. So now we can tell the start pos attitudes of one faction to another - and everyone hates the rebels. I assume that if nothing is shown there then the attitude is at 0.0.

If you start 2 factions allied to each other will they remain allied for the duration of the campaign? Or, can the normal course of events derail these alliances?

Rep.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

I do know that. At the beginning of my campaign everyone loved everyone but when the turns went passing love started to dissapear (slowly but still - especially towards me). I haven't witnessed any alliance breaks and I played for sth like 100 turns. It's not a perfect solution but it's a start anyway