Arab scientists create artificial rain

[Imperial]

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/01/03/...#ixzz1A5MnEGBX

Hail, lightning and gales came through the state's eastern region this summer thanks to scientist-puppetmasters.
As part of a secret program to control the weather in the Middle East, scientists working for the United Arab Emirates government artificially created rain where rain is generally nowhere to be found. The $11 million project, which began in July, put steel lampshade-looking ionizers in the desert to produce charged particles. The negatively charged ions rose with the hot air, attracting dust. Moisture then condensed around the dust and eventually produced a rain cloud. A bunch of rain clouds.
(See TIME's pictures of the year 2010)
On the 52 days it rained in the region throughout July and August, forecasters did not predict rain once.
While fascinating, this is not the first time scientists have attempted to mess with Mother Nature. China has been tinkering with cloud seeding for years, not always successfully.
But the idea that countries in the Middle East could actually create rain in this water-poor region could go a long way to solving the area's problems with drought and is considered to be cheaper than desalination. But how controllable the weather can be is still in doubt, and the consequences of meddling with nature at this level are yet to be seen.
(See the top 10 scientific discoveries of 2010)

Anyone else see the crazy possibilities for this? Not only will the Middle East control our oil, but also our water supplies. That water is literally stolen from some place else since there is only so much moisture that is in the air.

[Panzerbear]

excellent news. I find the dramatic economic and technological progress of select few Arab countries simply astounding.

"they are stealing our rain!!111" hmmm... not that we should really worry about it.

[Phier]

"they are stealing our rain!!111" hmmm... not that we should really worry about it.

Actually this could very well be the case depending on if it changed weather patterns. It would be very similar to water rights on a river where the people upstream want all the water.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Actually this could very well be the case depending on if it changed weather patterns. It would be very similar to water rights on a river where the people upstream want all the water.

lol Northern Californians are sick of giving the southerners all our water...

ers keep reproducing and then ask for more water.

@OP
Brilliant... seems so simple too. Doesnt matter who discovered this I can potentially see some valuable uses for this... imagine arid regions coming back to live. The Euphrates and the Tigris or any other system. Perhaps more water in Iraq could decrease violent tensions.


I had the same thoughts Wiggum. Water is theoretically immortal and can not be destroyed but it cant be created either right? SO if the water is being brought somewhere else does it come from somewhere else too... heres hoping the water taken came from the South Indian Sea... they prob have enough anyway.

[Phier]

I had the same thoughts Wiggum. Water is theoretically immortal and can not be destroyed but it cant be created either right? SO if the water is being brought somewhere else does it come from somewhere else too... heres hoping the water taken came from the South Indian Sea... they prob have enough anyway.

Behold the destruction of water.

Hydrogen generators destroy water, we did the experiment in 7th grade (had a bit of a wackjob of a science teacher, almost blew himself up once with me at a witness).

[MathiasOfAthens]

With any luck its being taken from Australia and Scotland, who have a bit of an excess at the moment.

Australia has an Excess?

Behold the destruction of water.

Hydrogen generators destroy water, we did the experiment in 7th grade (had a bit of a wackjob of a science teacher, almost blew himself up once with me at a witness).

Interesting, did it completely destroy the molecules or did it just separate the Hydrogen and Oxygen?

[Elfdude]

This isn't particularly directed at Phier but rather a lot of comments here.

very similar to water rights on a river where the people upstream want all the water.

The weather patterns aren't really altered all that much. The process capitalizes on water vapor which isn't really doing anything although it can pull water vapor from the immediate area, cloud seeding increases the total volume of rainfall. While some areas may experience slightly reduced rain the total volume of water shed from the atmosphere is increased. This is very much like activating a switch that already exists with water that already exists in order to form nucleus points to start the freezing of water which leads to precipitation. While it's true that a cloud may dump it's water faster than normal it will dump far more water. Essentially the earth runs itself but the desert belt is a phenomena not caused by lack of water but lack of precipitation which usually occurs simply because the area is too warm and any clouds that might form are pushed away by winds.

Also hypothetically an over-sized humidifier combined with cloud seeding techniques would negate any negatives we might experience. There's little problem with putting more water into the atmosphere although I really don't think we would need it.

Great. So the rain project if proven successful on the long-term will turn our desert into greenery. That in turn will compound the unbearable humidity in the gulf countries. What are we going to do about the humidity?! It's utterly disgusting in August and this will only make it worse.

Actually the humidity of those countries is caused by a huge amount of water vapor in the air already. The issue is that it's too warm to turn this water into a cloud nucleus.

To those curious the US started it's own cloud seeding experiments in the 1920s and has been perfecting them and researching them ever since. The original idea was to solve the dustbowl with cloud seeding, we have known for a long time that when we super cool the air it produces cloud nuclei. Airplanes are a major source of modern seeded clouds and that's completely unintentional. The US isn't being outpaced by Arab scientists, and the Chinese even used cloud seeding techniques to prevent rainfall from affecting the Beijing Olympics this is simply the first case of scientists attempting to use it specifically to re-engineer a desert it's not really a big surprise.

Also we've known how to trigger manmade volcanoes for at least 20 years, manmade earthquakes since WWII with the british invention of the earthquake bomb and even know how to control and direct hurricanes. This weather manipulation is a lot more real than people give it credit for and it's anything but new.

[Caliph]

Actually the humidity of those countries is caused by a huge amount of water vapor in the air already.

And what's the cause of that? Is it the acute angle the sun seems to hit the region combined with it being close to a body of a water?

The issue is that it's too warm to turn this water into a cloud nucleus.

So successfully using up the water vapor in the air to turn it into cloud nuclei will reduce humidity assuming the amount of water vapor in the air is finite?

Also, from what I gather from the rest of your post is that this project if adopted will not cause major negative effects to weather patters for our neighbours. Then there shouldn't be any outside objections for this, not that I've heard of any yet.

[Elfdude]

And what's the cause of that? Is it the acute angle the sun seems to hit the region combined with it being close to a body of a water?

I suspect you're being sarcastic but if you're not forgive me. The cause of it is multiple things, firstly the ambient temperature of the air. Hot air can hold more vapor load than cold air (why cooling the air = rain). Combined with the large body of water nearby this helps up the humidity, but further being that there's few plants to absorb water vapor from the air this further ups the humidity. Then we look at the ground temperature which can be enough to burn your skin on contact, if water vapor does fall to the ground the natural environment spits it out. Basically a desert forms because of continuous tipping of the scales to the point where a run away effect occurs. In the US we realized this all too severely with the collapse of the central US ecosystem resulting from too many farmers turning too much land into barren (ready to plant) fields. The midwest is rather temperate now but you wouldn't have guessed that durring the dust bowl.

So successfully using up the water vapor in the air to turn it into cloud nuclei will reduce humidity assuming the amount of water vapor in the air is finite?

It will reduce humidity by cooling the air as well. It will reduce humidity by providing an environment in which liquid water can once again exist. It will reduce humidity by turning that humidity into rain. Yes there will be more water vapor to replace the missing water vapor but as temperatures and effects stabilize the overall result should be a cooler more comfortable environment.

Also, from what I gather from the rest of your post is that this project if adopted will not cause major negative effects to weather patters for our neighbours. Then there shouldn't be any outside objections for this, not that I've heard of any yet.

Right. IIRC the biggest issue with cloud seeding is fear that the silver oxide commonly used is toxic. However anything that can supercool water can be used to seed clouds including dry ice or liquid nitrogen or really any liquid gas.

[Nikos]

Moved to the Athenaeum.

-Nikos

[Imperial]

Moved to the Athenaeum.

-Nikos

I was hoping to get a political discussion about how this could lead into wars.

oh well

[Gordon Freynman]

...and the consequences of meddling with nature at this level are yet to be seen

I'm worried this can have long-term negative effects on the weather in the area, I hope they tread carefully.

[Copperknickers II]

With any luck its being taken from Australia and Scotland, who have a bit of an excess at the moment.

[Dewy]

With any luck its being taken from Australia and Scotland, who have a bit of an excess at the moment.

Yes lets hope it gets taken from the the driest inhabited continent on earth. Truly amazing post there

Australia has an Excess?

In some places our dams have reached 100%.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Yes lets hope it gets taken from the the driest inhabited continent on earth. Truly amazing post there



In some places our dams have reached 100%.

Yeah I think generally 90 percent of Australia is asking for some of that water... the deserts in the interior.

[Veliky Kaiser Theos]

With any luck its being taken from Australia and Scotland, who have a bit of an excess at the moment.

Australia only just got out of a decade of drought.

[Caliph]

Sand in the vagina is a slang term meaning angry or irritated. He's essentially connecting the instability in the middle east to everyone being angry. Alternatively he's referring to the middle east itself as a vagina clogged with sand. Either way I think it's a joke.

Whoops. I never heard of the phrase before and needless to say took it literally as a crass comment on middle eastern women's hygiene.

Its like saying getting the stick out of ... meaning someone is really irritated or angry and someone else tells them to relax... get that stick out of your ass.

This one I've heard before. Heard it being said on TV several times.

As for scheuch13.

Please accept my apology for the way I responded to you. Though if I didn't embarrass myself the way I did responding to you I would never have learned what this expression means so it's not a total loss I suppose. Now that I understand English again, I find your comment to be far from stupid. It's quite smart actually.

Arab scientist ?? I hardly believe that

I would say : scientist paid by arab gov ...
Or am I wrong ?

You skag are either a racist or your english is poor and you can't phrase your opinions in a reasonable way.

Refer to what Phier did if you wished to make a similar point. His post didn't display any sort of racisim but yours did even though your positions are almost the same. The big difference is that he was factual and you weren't.

[skag]

You skag are either a racist or your english is poor and you can't phrase your opinions in a reasonable way.

?? the sentences I tiped were incorrect ?

Refer to what Phier did if you wished to make a similar point. His post didn't display any sort of racisim but yours did even though your positions are almost the same. The big difference is that he was factual and you weren't.

Me ? racist ? lol
by best friend is from Congo, the women whith who i have be the longer time was from Morocco
And usually, i always defend Islam, and arabs

I tend to have some relation with the petroleum industry, and therefore with arabs, added to the fact that i personally have lot of personal relations with arabs (friends,...)

And, in Saudi Arabia, I know quite well how things works out there, most of all for science/academy/uni/industry. Well ... at least i know better than 99.99% percent of world population, but absolutely, i cannot say i "know well".

Basically, in saudi arabia what they made was :
We have ressources, but don't have knowledge. "Western world" have knowledge, but no more ressources => win/win situation : paying a lot LOT, HUUUUGE amounts of money to very intelligent, experienced and talented people. Let's remember they were nomads few years ago. The transition/process of : aquiring knowledge from exprienced people, because these are centuries they practicising science/industry etc, is still not very well completed.
Which is totally normal ! you can't expect from a people to be expert in anykind of domain in few years.
King Abdallah, and the actual gov. is in fact sending their students all around the world, in the best universities, but they are still not yet able to independently take the lead. Once again : which is normal, this is a long process

So now : Am I wrong ? does this makes of me a racist ? no, actually, i think you missed an important fact by stipulating : Arabs made this ... while in your article, the name of the inventers are not even mentioned
It's like saying : Arabs built this pretrochemical ... don't know, let's say Steam Cracker. WRONG ! the steam cracker was built or by frenchies, or by germans, or by USA, because they are the only lincencers of the world. (at least as i know)

I just wanted to point out that your title was basically, probably, incorrect, that's all. Because, I have to admit it, generally, i have the feeling that Arabs of the gulf lost a basic value : humility, and lately, that piss me off. They are worst than the frenchies : my country is the best, we are the best, we are the people of God, arab is the most beautiful (which i have to admit can be true), we have the most beautiful womens (which can also be true, but personally, i prefer persians), & bla bla bla

[Caliph]

I found some of what you just typed to be quite interesting. I am glad you generally have a favourable opinion on Arabs. Though none of what you wrote is relevant to the point I was making.

Your initial statement flatly implied that an Arab scientist could not have been behind that. As in impossible. Though as you pointed out, it is unlikely to be an Arab as not many Arabs are in the field of R&D. However, unless you met every scientist in every R&D facility in the gulf and made sure they are ALL non-Arabs (which you didn't), then your initial statement is as dumb as they come (which it is).

[boofhead]

Australia only just got out of a decade of drought.

\

At this very moment, an area of Australia equivalent in size to France and Germany combined is flooded. Maybe that is what he was alluding to?