Society - Why?

[Copperknickers II]

The following exchange occurred elsewhere on the forum:

: The fact we have organised governments and social tabboos shows that, although we cannot always agree on our morality, we do have a general sense that it is more important, in a world where we have increased the chances of offspring surviving on a scale far in excess of what life has previously been capable of, to see ourselves as a species rather than to see only our immediate family as people whom we feel the need to protect and care for.

I'd have to disagree personally. My family and a small circle of others are the only folks I really care about in terms of protecting and caring for them. Sure if I see someone in danger I'll try to help them(hell most of my adult life has been spent in job fields doing just that) but if one of my family were in danger I'd sacrifice others to save my own. This being off topic I won't carry this part any further but if you'd like to discuss it more put up a thread in the EMM.

I know that not all of us, in fact very few of us, value everyone equally including family members, but why does society exist? Society is an organised social construct by which a number of people agree to live in, or are coerced and forced into living in, an area under the rule of a government, monarch, tribal council, etc. What made this happen? Is it a sign that humans are at heart cooperative creatures who know that the best way of surviving is to be, on the whole, supportive to others? Why do we do this then? And why are cities considered such unfriendly places when they must surely have started out as a group of people wanting to live close to each other.

[Astaroth]

Society exists because it is practical and successful. When humans started to settle down in villages and later cities, it soon became obvious that larger groups are more successful than smaller ones. There are multiple reasons for that. For one, it is easier to defend against hostile humans and wild animals. Secondly, it is the basis for the division of labor.

People living in families and small tribes didn't have much trouble with hunting and gathering, but once farming became increasingly important humans began forming bigger groups. It's quite simple - the more people there are, the more stable everyone's life becomes in the end. Society also provides more protection for children which is another evolutionary advantage.

Is it a sign that humans are at heart cooperative creatures who know that the best way of surviving is to be, on the whole, supportive to others?

In a way, yes. Humans cooperate with each other because ultimately it is best for the individuals as well - at least on average. Sure, sharing your food with others or helping them build a house might not be beneficial for the short term but in the long run - if most people do it - everyone benefits from it.

Why do we do this then?

See above.

And why are cities considered such unfriendly places when they must surely have started out as a group of people wanting to live close to each other.

People didn't begin living in bigger groups because they liked each other or because they enjoyed each other's company. It was more a matter of practicality - just like nowadays, in a way. Therefore, the current development is not really that surprising.

[waidizss]

People feel loyalty and connection to those whom they spend time with.

Cities are unfriendly because there are too many conflicts of interest or principle in a small place.

Sure, sharing your food with others or helping them build a house might not be beneficial for the short term but in the long run - if most people do it - everyone benefits from it.

so why people don't do it?

[Astaroth]

It is still done, just not on such a large scale. Also, the state has partly taken that role via taxes etc.

[Mr. Crow]

, but why does society exist?

The father of social sciences pus it elegantly

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

HUMAN1 SOCIAL ORGANIZATION is something necessary. The philosophers expressed this fact by saying: "Man is `political' by nature."2 That is, he cannot do without the social organization for which the philosophers use the technical term "town" (polis).

This is what civilization means. (The necessary character of human social organization or civilization) is explained by the fact that God created and fashioned man in a form that can live and subsist only with the help offood. He guided man to a natural desire for food and instilled in him the power that enables him to obtain it.

However, the power of the individual human being is not sufficient for him to obtain (the food) he needs, and does not provide him with as much food as he requires to live. Even if we assume an absolute minimum of food-that is, food enough for one day, (a little) wheat, for instance-that amount of food could be obtained only after much preparation such as grinding, kneading, and baking. Each of these three operations requires utensils and tools that can be provided only with the help of several crafts, such as the crafts of the blacksmith, the carpenter, and the potter. Assuming that a man could eat unprepared grain, an even greater number of operations would be necessary in order to obtain the grain: sowing and reaping, and threshing to separate it from the husks of the ear. Each of these operations requires a number of tools and many more crafts than those just mentioned. It is beyond the power of one man alone to do all that, or (even) part of it, by himself. Thus, he cannot do without a combination of many powers from among his fellow beings, if he is to obtain food for himself and for them. Through co*operation, the needs of a number of persons, many times greater than their own (number), can be satisfied.

Likewise, each individual needs the help of his fellow beings for his defense, as well. When God fashioned the natures of all living beings and divided the various powers among them, many dumb animals were given more perfect powers than God gave to man. The power of a horse, for instance, is much greater than the power of man, and so is the power of a donkey or an ox. The power of a lion or an elephant is many times greater than the power of (man).

Aggressiveness is natural in living beings. Therefore, God gave each of them a special limb for defense against aggression. To man, instead, He gave the ability to think, and the hand. With the help of the ability to think, the hand is able to prepare the ground for the crafts. The crafts, in turn, procure for man the instruments that serve him instead of limbs, which other animals possess for their defense. Lances, for instance, take the place of horns for goring, swords the place of claws to inflict wounds, shields the place of thick skins, and so on. There are other such things. They were all mentioned by Galen in De usu partium.3

to put it easily humans are useless so they need to live in paks.

Society is an organised social construct by which a number of people agree to live in, or are coerced and forced into living in, an area under the rule of a government, monarch, tribal council, etc. What made this happen?

well at the beginning society was mostly egalitarian, in fact there are remains of villages in turkey numbering the tens of thousands that are still mostly egalitarian, however, agricultural societies required labor division, causing the structure to form.

Is it a sign that humans are at heart cooperative creatures who know that the best way of surviving is to be, on the whole, supportive to others? Why do we do this then?

we do, thus Altruism and morals

And why are cities considered such unfriendly places when they must surely have started out as a group of people wanting to live close to each other.

mapping of the human brain(comparison between ensefalisation index and herd size in apes), and study of primitive human groups(bible scriptures) has revealed that the optimal number for a human herd is between 120 and 150 individuals.

[Elfdude]

Cooperation is more evolutionary efficient. Further cooperation allows adaptation at a rate that evolution does not allow to solve more immediate problems. Rather than your whole species dying out when it gets cold you learn to make clothes and spread that knowledge around. Just like it's more efficient for some cells in your body to be filters and some to be absorbers and some to be movers and some to be transporters it's more efficient for some people to make tools, some people to learn knowledge, and some people to raise families. You can think of society as the next 'stage' of evolution. If mitosis was the first stage, meiosis was the second. Meiosis eventually produced us and society which can solve the problems of evolution even problems evolution would've never noticed through using that society in the same way that mitosis allowed early cells to mutate much faster and eventually produce very complex animals to solve environmental problems.

[chriscase]

I think the relevant field of study is anthropology. Study of chimpanzees shows they are social but not in anything approaching state (or even tribal) level culture. The clan-level loyalty Ciabhan mentions is probably more defensible from a long-term perspective. State and tribal level cultures are notoriously unstable in comparison.

[Phier]

I think the relevant field of study is anthropology. Study of chimpanzees shows they are social but not in anything approaching state (or even tribal) level culture. The clan-level loyalty Ciabhan mentions is probably more defensible from a long-term perspective. State and tribal level cultures are notoriously unstable in comparison.

Chimps might not have much of a society but they do have plenty of politics.

I see society as just an offshoot of being a social animal with enough intelligence to add higher order reasoning to the social animal nature.

I think many of the problem of modern society stem from the fact that we have gone so far beyond what we have evolved for in scale that we don't really have a feel for how it should be done and people attempt to run our societies based on what they think should work on pure reason rather than our genetic realities.

Its all agriculture's fault.

[Gaidin]

Given its demonstrated usefulness, I think the more interesting question about society would be 'Why not?'.

[MaximiIian]

I know that not all of us, in fact very few of us, value everyone equally including family members, but why does society exist?

Society exists because it's mutually beneficial. However, beyond certain sizes, it becomes troublesome and unwieldy. That is because of the Monkeysphere Phenomenon, aka Dunbar's number. Beyond a certain number of people (in our case, around 150 to 300 people), we simply don't see other people as people. We see them as NPC's, basically, if they are outside of our Monkeysphere.
The reason society still functions, despite this seemingly unsolvable hurdle, is that our Monkeyspheres overlap in large enough communities.

[Himster]

We evolved from social organisms, we are social organisms. We can also think for ourselves and overcome our biological programming, this is when our greatest acts of charity and evil happen.

[Atatürk]

Society is a method used by the weak majority to suppress the strong minority.

[Viking Prince]

Society is a method used by the weak majority to suppress the strong minority.

This may be a result of living within a society, but I would doubt a society exists with that as a purpose or that a society was created with such a result intended. Social structures exist because the are beneficial.

[chriscase]

This may be a result of living within a society, but I would doubt a society exists with that as a purpose or that a society was created with such a result intended. Social structures exist because the are beneficial.

It's a better description of state-level societies.