Baltic campaign before 1227+recruitement

[Meelis13]

I was wondering, if there would be a possibility to make a campaign set in Estonia/Livonia in late 12th century to early 13th century. or if its too small part, than why not use baltic area map?
i have already offered this to many mods, but mostly having ''more interesting'' factions to consider, they have turned me down. But in my opinion, factions like early 13th century Estonia and Livonia have been seriously underestimated. late 12th/early 13th century was maybe even more interesting than other areas in europe at that time: lots of wars, raids, hell, even sigtuna (swedish major city) was burned at that time (1187). There are, yes, honestly a s..tload of mods based on baltics, but they ALL start too freakin' late (normally around 1250, wich is at least 50 years too late).
anyways, heres my reccomendation for factions (for baltic area map, btw i give more factions, than it is supposed to, bold type are MUST BE factions):
Novgorod republic
Estonia
Livonia
Pskov republic
sword brothers order (emerges at start of livonia crusade)
sweden
Finland
lithuania
latvia
kuronians
teutonic order
Livonian order (after sword brothers emergement with teutonics, but only in baltics)
Denmark
HRE
norway
poland

Keep in mind, that this faction list offer is for baltic map (same size as teutonic campaign map).
now since there was almost released mod, that now is dead (focused on livonia and Estonia) i was wondering, if you (as in modders) could ask theyre files to finish them.
if you decide, that this is great campaign, than please dont leave estonia and livonia factions out, ive been trying to find a single downloadable or in active modding mod, that includes these 2 factions well over a year by now. i really suck at modding (i have tried that), but i can (maybe) help out with history
hope i didnt offend anyone, cuz i write this as i am really sleepy.
there may be more things, but i just dont remember.
Its not as much as recruitement as it is ask for help to finish this campaign.

[Esis]

That's good idea. Many historical wars happend in this age and this area
specially struggle between christians and pagans.

[uanime5]

The problem with this campaign is that I don't have skins and banners for half the factions. I also don't have any special units for Estonia or Latvia. If someone would make these then I could make this campaign.

[Meelis13]

The problem with this campaign is that I don't have skins and banners for half the factions. I also don't have any special units for Estonia or Latvia. If someone would make these then I could make this campaign.

well, i dont know, if files still exist, but i know a dead mod, that had pretty good progress, before it died. it is called livonia total war, they SHOULD have done (well, at least some) special units, skins and banners. now i know, that theres many separate estonian factions in this mod, but estonians used similar units.
if files are already deleted or some other problems, than i ask all modders to help to make this campaign FINALLY true.
PS! for estonians special unit i offer estonian crossbowmen (estonians were first of the baltic pagan people, who adapted crossbows in their weaponry and started making thei own crossbows) and estonian catapults (appeared in Estonia during early 1220-s).

[uanime5]

well, i dont know, if files still exist, but i know a dead mod, that had pretty good progress, before it died. it is called livonia total war, they SHOULD have done (well, at least some) special units, skins and banners. now i know, that theres many separate estonian factions in this mod, but estonians used similar units.
if files are already deleted or some other problems, than i ask all modders to help to make this campaign FINALLY true.
PS! for estonians special unit i offer estonian crossbowmen (estonians were first of the baltic pagan people, who adapted crossbows in their weaponry and started making thei own crossbows) and estonian catapults (appeared in Estonia during early 1220-s).

I checked out the Livonia: Total War thread and all they had was

a) Concept;
b) Some 85% of map.
c) And yes - one faction icon - for Archbishop..

As kkchen88 stated most of the work is done by me and the more work I have to do to make a mod the less likely it is to get made. This is why in the future campaign thread I was asking for help to make my new campaigns.

[Meelis13]

I checked out the Livonia: Total War thread and all they had was


As kkchen88 stated most of the work is done by me and the more work I have to do to make a mod the less likely it is to get made. This is why in the future campaign thread I was asking for help to make my new campaigns.

do you need history research? cuz thats only subject i CAN help.
btw i didnt meant to but extra pressure on you. sorry if i did.

[kkchen88]

pls dont give much stress to Unime5, he working on the mod with very less member or alone. please refer to his future campaign thread if wanted to know future campaign

[Meelis13]

im sorry, i didnt wanted to create ANY pressure, i was just suggsesting.

[Esis]

if you let me i can research about the maps and banners.

[uanime5]

Feel free to post your research but unless someone is willing to make the new banners, units, maps, etc this mod won't get made.

[Meelis13]

k, shall we use this topic for this campaign research or some other topic?

[uanime5]

This topic is fine, though you may want to rename it.

[Meelis13]

how to rename it? i never had renamed any topic so forgive me this may-look-dumb question.
anyways, here are research results (of Estonia): map of Estonia in early 13th century:
red dots represent places of estonian forts.
Estonian army type was Malev, wich was basically bunch of regular villagers from all over the counties (estonians fought between themselves as well). Each soldier had his own personal weapons, wich were made by village blacksmiths or got as booty from raids. Actually cavalry was pretty important in estonian armies- sometimes even more than 60 percent. Estonian cavalry was very light cavalry- fast moving, armed with spears and swords, rider may have his personal armour, but armour was very rarely (and even than in the end of estonian fight of freedom (1208-1227)) on horse. as result estonian cav accsessed almost everywhere. There were some heavy swordsmen, but it wasnt very much of those, still worth mentioning. most of infartry consisted of light swordsmen and spearmen (there were relatively many armoured spearmen as well). Axemen (yes, good old viking style axemen) were also pretty important part of estonian infartry body. Axemen were historically melee unit, but ive read a book (called "Ümera jõel" ("on river of Ümera")) wich describes (according to writer of course) how estonians used axes as missle weapons. I found this pretty interesting idea. Of course estonians used lots of archers, spearthrowers, but estonians were 1st nation of Baltic pagans, that adapted use of crossbow. Estonians also use catapults or small trebuches (i am unsure how it is in english, but basically it was catapult wich looked like small trebuchet). Estonians were also impressive seamen: they are belived to burn Sigtuna in 1187 (major city of Sweden) and been barely defeated by danes in sea battle, that occurred off the coast of Öland in 1170 (estonians were allied with curonians in this battle).
Most of armour consisted of wooden helmet with iron stripes and shield, richer population afforded some iron or mail shirts (again, im unsure of translation). i think this is enough for now....
PS! Estonians were sometimes called as "vikings of the east"

[Esis]

Order of the Brothers of the Sword
organization of crusading knights that began the successful conquest and Christianization of Livonia (most of modern Latvia and Estonia) between 1202 and 1237.
After German merchants from Lübeck and Bremen acquired commercial interests in the lands around the mouth of the Dvina River (mid-12th century), German missionaries entered the region. In 1202 the third bishop of Livonia, Albert von Buxhoevden, founded the Order of the Brothers of the Sword, with the pope's permission, as a permanent military body in Livonia to protect the church's conquests and to forcibly convert the native pagan tribes to Christianity.

Consecrated by the pope in 1204, the order adopted the rules of the Knights Templar; the order's knights (called Knights of the Sword because their white cloaks were decorated with red crosses and swords) were required to be of noble birth and to take vows of obedience, poverty, and celibacy. They lived in district castles, each of which was ruled by its own council and a military chief, who was chosen by the order's grand master. The grand master, who served for life, was selected by the knights' general assembly, which also elected the order's other officials at its annual sessions. In addition to knights, the order's membership included soldiers, artisans, and clerics.

By 1206 the order had firmly established itself as the dominant power in the land of the Livs, the Finno-Ugrian people dwelling near the mouths of the Dvina and Gauja rivers, and by 1217 it had conquered not only the neighbouring Latvian tribes north of the Dvina but also southern Estonia. It then began the conquest of the lands south of the Dvina but encountered strong resistance from their inhabitants, the Curonians (Kurs) and the Semigallians. In September 1236 while the order's army, heavily burdened with booty, was returning through Semigallia from a raid in Lithuanian Samogitia, a combined force of Semigallians and Samogitians inflicted a disastrous defeat upon them (Battle of Saule), killing the grand master, Volquin, and effectively destroying the knights' military might. The order, which had been reprimanded by both the Holy Roman emperor and the pope for indiscriminately using brutal tactics against converts as well as heathens and which appeared by this time to be more concerned with establishing its own feudal domain than with gathering converts for the church, was then forced by the pope to disband and reorganize as a branch (1237) of the Teutonic Knights, whose main base was in Prussia and whose grand master thenceforth appointed the provincial master ( Landmeister) of Livonia. The Livonian Knights continued the conquest of Livonia and ruled the region as an autonomous order again from 1525. Livonia, however, was divided and the order dissolved in 1561.

research from wikipedia & history.com

[Meelis13]

i will start research on next faction (and hopefully post it too) in saturday, cant start sooner cuz of school.
PS! MAYBE (it is very maybe) i make some banners, altough skinning and banner making are my worst skills in my poor modding skills..... So dont count on me on that one, at least until i ACTUALLY post it here, cuz i may ditch banner making.....
how to change topic title? plz help me on that one!

[uanime5]

In order to change the title of this thread you have to press the 'Edit Post' button on the first post, select the 'Go Advanced' button, and change the name in the 'Title:' located above the message.

I can change it if you want. Do you have any suggestions for the title?

[Meelis13]

thanks uanime5
i would suggsest "Baltic campaign+ recruitement"
i would add 2nd part, cuz you obviously need more help (and you admited it like a man with guts) than my crappy modding skills... altough i dont know, how good modder Esis is.... but still even if hes very good modder, this campaign needs some more fans of this era to help.... BTW my 1st appetempt on banners failed epically, i dont know if i try it again, but if i do, than not sooner than next weekend.
PS! hopefully i can post next faction research tomorrow or on sunday...

[Meelis13]

sorry for small portion of research i give (it is really small compared to what i wanted to post), but i have been very busy in last few weeks, even now i have to copy-paste basically with few sentences added by me. Trust me, i hate this kind of intel, but i dont want this campaign to die, so...
NB! if anyone requests, that i take this intel off, i will, cuz i dont want any trouble.
source:http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/...historyid=ad02
Finno-Ugric settlers: 1st century AD

By the 1st century AD tribes speaking Finno-Ugric languages are farming the coastal regions on the east of the Baltic. Some of them move north at this period into the region later known as Finland. These include the Finns themselves and two closely related groups, the Tavastians and the Karelians.

Other tribes remain in the region now known as Estonia. Today, two millennia later, Finland and Estonia are two of the three main enclaves within Europe of Finno-Ugric peoples. The third is Hungary.
The Swedish neighbour: 12th - 17th century AD

By the 12th century the pagan inhabitants of Finland are the target of missionary activity from neighbouring Sweden. Henry, an English bishop of Uppsala, dies a martyr's death in Finland in about 1155. Thomas, another English bishop of Uppsala, converts the Tavastians in the 13th century. In the 14th century Roman Catholics from Sweden go to war against Russian Orthodox from Novgorod for the soul of the Karelians.
Territory is captured along with souls. A treaty of 1323 divides Karelia between Sweden and Novgorod. By that time the rest of Finland has been attached to the Swedish kingdom.
Finland remains a separate territory, albeit increasingly absorbed within the stronger and more sophisticated Swedish culture. Its separate dignity is acknowledged in 1581, when the Swedish king accords Finland the status of a grand duchy.
2nd source: wikipedia.com
ontact between Sweden and what is now Finland was considerable even during pre-Christian times – the Vikings were known to Finns both due to their participation in commerce and plundering. There is commonly accepted evidence of Viking settlement in the Finnish mainland.[12] The Åland Islands probably had Swedish settlement during the Viking Period. However, some scholars claim that the archipelago was deserted during the 11th century. Åland was then re-settled by Swedes during the 12th century.[citation needed] According to the archaeological finds, Christianity gained a foothold in Finland during the 11th century. According to the very few written documents that have survived, the church in Finland was still in its early development in the 12th century. Later medieval legends describe Swedish attempts to conquer and Christianize Finland sometime in the mid-1150s. In the early 13th century, Bishop Thomas became the first bishop of Finland. There were several secular powers who aimed to bring the Finns under their rule. These were Sweden, Denmark, the Republic of Novgorod in Northwestern Russia and probably the German crusading orders as well. Finns had their own chiefs, but most probably no central authority. Russian chronicles indicate there were conflict between Novgorod and the Finnic tribes from the 11th or 12th century to the early 13th century.
The name "Finland" originally signified only the southwestern province that has been known as "Finland Proper" since the 18th century. Österland (lit. Eastern Land) was the original name for the Swedish realm's eastern part, but already in the 15th century Finland began to be used synonymously with Österland. The concept of a Finnish "country" in the modern sense developed only slowly during the period of the 15th–18th centuries.
finnish people were later important part of swedish and russian armies (probably most know unit type they formed, were hakkapels (name gomes from battlecry: "Hakka pääle", wich means lets get started or something like that)).
sorry for so little modifications, but like i said i am too busy.