Effective use of Crossbows

[Marcvs Antonivs]

I always had this question, how do you effectively use crossbow infantry regiments? You can't use them as archers behind your own lines because they can't shoot over your own lines, only if there is a hill and they're placed at the top, but talking about plain terrain, how the heck do you use them? If I put them at my flanks the AI will 99% of the time detach cavalry or other unit to simply go chase them, so crossbowmen are more of a decoy instead of doing their real job, ah well...

BTW I'm playing 6.2

[Gorrrrrn]

Historically one would expect xbowmen to be heavily protected during open field battles - either supporting spears (to protect against cavalry) or
shields / pavises (to protect against missiles.) The problems you face are the same historical commanders would have faced - useful troops but where do you put them?

[Concrete]

I always prefer to stick with archers due to the fact that I can use them better, but when I have to use Xbows for whatever reason, flanking them around a melee and having them fire into the flank/rear of an enemy unit is amazingly effective.

[Moritol]

I mix my main battleline with crossbowmen and spearmen. Behind the crossbowmen , there is my heavy infantry. Sometimes I even toggle skirmish mode off. Point blank bolts are more effective. After all crossbowmen are one off the cheapest units and easy to refill.

[SirRobin]

I always prefer to stick with archers due to the fact that I can use them better, but when I have to use Xbows for whatever reason, flanking them around a melee and having them fire into the flank/rear of an enemy unit is amazingly effective.

But if you had taken a unit of swordsmen instead, flanking would have been even more effective.

[PaleBlueDot]

Don't put crossbowmen on top of the hill, place them where the slope is at its strongest. That way they can shoot over units in front of themselves, they have a direct line of sight to the enemy, they dont get a blind spot when the enemy is close and the enemy troops will probably be a larger target, as you can hit units also in the back of the formation. Besides when placed like this they can shoot over the head of each other, so you can place them in any formation you like. On a typical "bell curve" hill that means placing them rather close to the bottom of the hill.

If you are on a flat battlefield, you could leave a gap in your lines, and place the xbows behind that gap. If someone tries to charge them, have the units on each side of the gap flank them. Like this:

-------xxxxx-------
SSSS-----SSSSS

(infantry/S, f.eg spearman are ready to flank anyone attacking Xbow)

Even more effective, or if you have a lot of Xbows, is maybe this: (the three XXX constitute a single Xbow unit)

--------X---------X---------X-------
-------X---------X---------X--------
------X---------X---------X---------
SSSS----SSSS----SSSS----SSS

By keeping the Xbows like that they won't have to shoot over their own heads, and you don't leave huge gaps in your lines.

The problem with these formations is that the Xbow attacks enemies from the front, with the shields taking most of the damage. It is possible to break the line into a giant ^. that way crossbow will be able to shoot at enemy flank.

Anyway, it doesnt take a lot of slope to make the Xbow a lot more useful. I hardly ever land on a flat enough battlefield.
Crossbows were more useful when they were armor piercing in vanilla (and reality).
There should be some way to have all infantry in front of the Xbows to simply lay down on the ground, like they do when hiding, to let the Xbow shoot over them. Then rise up when the enemy is close enough.

Missile units could historically stop a cavarly charge, so they are pretty underpowered in SS, also vanilla in my opinion.

[Jean=A=Luc]

You can't use them as archers behind your own lines because they can't shoot over your own lines...

I dunno, they sort of can in my experience. The enemy needs to be a bit further away from your line but still.

[SirRobin]

I always had this question, how do you effectively use crossbow infantry regiments? You can't use them as archers behind your own lines because they can't shoot over your own lines, only if there is a hill and they're placed at the top, but talking about plain terrain, how the heck do you use them? If I put them at my flanks the AI will 99% of the time detach cavalry or other unit to simply go chase them, so crossbowmen are more of a decoy instead of doing their real job, ah well...

BTW I'm playing 6.2

I just stand them in front of the lines, let them fire off some volleys and then retreat behind the spears when the enemy draws close.

Usually I will retreat them too late and/or they refuse to follow orders because they are busy reloading, and so many of them get minced each battle.

[Marcvs Antonivs]

Usually I will retreat them too late and/or they refuse to follow orders because they are busy reloading, and so many of them get minced each battle.

That is what I mostly do, and mostly happens, or placing them at the flanks and then shooting at the rear of the enemy. But I will try and use the tips from PaleBlueDot to see if it is feasible and practical.

[PaleBlueDot]

That is what I mostly do, and mostly happens, or placing them at the flanks and then shooting at the rear of the enemy. But I will try and use the tips from PaleBlueDot to see if it is feasible and practical.

Such formations greatly reduces flexibility in battle, but at least it allows them to continue firing for some time after the enemy lines has reached yours. So unless there is some variation in the terrain, crossbows are usually not cost effective. Obviously they were effective historically, but I have spent enough time complaining about underpowered missile units already. Placing them in front of your units, then having them retreat certainly is useless. You will just have the time to fire one or two volleys, killing nothing, and instead of running away from a charge, get stuck recharging. If they get away, just sit there behind your troops, ineffectively looking at the battle. If you let them fire at will from behind your lines, they will hit the enemy from the front, and your own men from behind.

[RazorbackII]

If only have crossbows (rare) then I will position them behind my line on my flanks
I will charge my line in sooner rather than using ranged first, making his ranged almost obsolete anyway hopefully and engaging his line. My cav/spears will also hopefully be occupying his cav or tearing into his flanks and if it is safe, the most effieicnet way I have found to use crossbows is to run them behind the enemy flank and fire into the back of them. Works a treat if they are protected/safe.

[Andytheplatypus]

I always had this question, how do you effectively use crossbow infantry regiments? You can't use them as archers behind your own lines because they can't shoot over your own lines, only if there is a hill and they're placed at the top, but talking about plain terrain, how the heck do you use them? If I put them at my flanks the AI will 99% of the time detach cavalry or other unit to simply go chase them, so crossbowmen are more of a decoy instead of doing their real job, ah well...

BTW I'm playing 6.2

Im playing as the HRE at the moment and since they dont have any good archer units, I have to use crossbow men to take down heavy infantry/cavalry.

I usually have 4-6 units of crossbow men in an army. While in a battle I place them in a single line in front of my heavy infantry with cavalry flanking on both sides.

They are able to fire5-6 volleys when facing a mostly infantry enemy, which helps to thin them out for your heavy infantry or heavy cavalry charge.

If the enemy is able to get in close to my crossbow men, I just order them back behind my heavy infantry since they are no longer needed at close range.

Hope that helps.

[k/t]

When fighting in Europe, it is almost always better to use crossbowmen than archers, since the enemy will usually be heavily armoured.

[PaleBlueDot]

When fighting in Europe, it is almost always better to use crossbowmen than archers, since the enemy will usually be heavily armoured.

How does that make sense? crossbowmen in 6.3 are not armor piercing either?

[k/t]

How does that make sense? crossbowmen in 6.3 are not armor piercing either?

How doesn't that make sense? Crossbows are more powerful than bows. The best bowmen are 95% useless against Gothic Knights, Gendarmes or Scholarii.

One thing that works against crossbowmen in the game is the idiotic programming that makes the reload cycle uninterruptible. Once they have acquired a target, if set on "fire at will", they will become rooted to the ground until they have shot. Sometimes they will obey orders to run behind the infantry, but then they will first make the shooting motion WITHOUT actually shooting, which wastes an opportunity to hit the enemy at close range. Is there a way to change this behaviour?

The best way to use crossbowmen on walls is to put...hmm, I'll try a diagram.


......I I I I.................................. enemy ladders
------------------------ ....<-|
OOOXXXX .........CCC ............|
OOOOXXX .........CCC ............|<- this is the flat part that you walk on at the top of the wall
OOOOXXX .........CCC ............|
------------------------.....<-|


O = your infantry, X = enemy infantry, C = your crossbowmen
The .... are space-makers, since the forum deletes blank spaces.


Your infantry attacks from the side, engaging the enemy, who will turn their backs to the crossbowmen, ensuring their shield will not protect them, as well as shielding your troops from your own crossbowmen.

You can put the crossbowmen a bit behind your infantry in field battles and they will fire over them.

[PaleBlueDot]

How doesn't that make sense? Crossbows are more powerful than bows. The best bowmen are 95% useless against Gothic Knights, Gendarmes or Scholarii.

I've probably not understood well the mechanism that applies damage and kill units. Once and for all, how does it work? I imagined that a damage of 5 is equal to damage of 10, if the fire rate is twice as high, which is usually the stat difference between archers/crossbows. Will the crossbow do more damage to high def units, and arches to more damaging to low def units thanks to reload rate? How can I calculate this?

[Gogolometro]

K/T you make a great and simple diagram about how xbows must be placed on walls.
PaleBlueDot, things are very simple, if the best archers get you 5 damage, are only 2 units who give 6 damage like archers, ussual damage is 3-4, and a crossbows give the worst case 6-7 (peasent), best 10-12 damage, who you think is more deadly?

[SirRobin]

The best way to use crossbowmen on walls is to put...hmm, I'll try a diagram.


......I I I I.................................. enemy ladders
------------------------ ....<-|
OOOXXXX .........CCC ............|
OOOOXXX .........CCC ............|<- this is the flat part that you walk on at the top of the wall
OOOOXXX .........CCC ............|
------------------------.....<-|



Your infantry attacks from the side, engaging the enemy, who will turn their backs to the crossbowmen, ensuring their shield will not protect them, as well as shielding your troops from your own crossbowmen.

It's true that this is very effective, however I always feel pretty cheap when doing it, since it feels like exploiting the game's mechanics.

In a real wall assault, the soldiers would attack to each side, not just get pinned down by one unit of defenders and not attack the crossbowmen. At the very least, they would realize they were getting mown down from behind and turn to protect themselves with their shields..

EDIT: Then again, I guess it sort of makes up for the fact that shooting from the walls is so ineffective, etc.

[Olvie]

It's true that this is very effective, however I always feel pretty cheap when doing it, since it feels like exploiting the game's mechanics.

In a real wall assault, the soldiers would attack to each side, not just get pinned down by one unit of defenders and not attack the crossbowmen. At the very least, they would realize they were getting mown down from behind and turn to protect themselves with their shields..

That's right, but do you want to win the battle or do you want to waste your advantage because of your pity? I'm sure the AI will thank you for your sense of fair play!

Thanks to all the people which posted diagramms, those really helped, especially the wall one!

[Marcvs Antonivs]

I'm playing as HRE now, maybe the most effective strategy is trying to charge the enemy as soon as possible and engage as many units as possible, then use the crossbowmen. But it is obvious it is not always a good thing, if I'm outnumbered or enemy has more cavalry than me. Most of the times the enemy does have more cavalry than me because I base my armies mostly on infantry with 4 to 6 ranged units and at the most up to 5 units of cav including general but mostly only 2 or 3, that's why I prefer England. Longbows have a very long range, can fire over your own units and kill heavily armored units as well. With England I deploy 6 to 9 longbow/yeoman/retinue. But I can't stick to England forever.