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  1. #1
    Fight!'s Avatar Question Everything.
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    Default Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    A simple question, really: Why is it you believe leftism/rightism is ethically superior to rightism/leftism?

    As a leftist, I believe that leftism is ethically superior as it places the needs of the majority above the desires of the minority and rewards hard work as well as success, rather than merely the latter. In a leftist system, poverty is lesser among the lower and middle classes, providing for a life that is at the very least decent. Success in a leftist system isn't at the detriment of others, but rather the benefit, allowing for a symbiotic relationship of workers and state or proletariat and bourgeoisie, depending on the form of leftism.

    On the contrary, rightism is ethically inferior as it places the desires of the minority above the needs of the majority and rewards success far greater than hard work. In a Rightist system, poverty among lower classes can reach abominable heights, and the middle class can shrink to dangerous lows, providing for a system of unbelievable inequality. Success in a rightist system comes at the detriment of others, and businesses are compelled to follow only the bottom line, or fall to other businesses, providing for a parasitic relationship between workers and state or proletariat and bourgeoisie, depending on the form of rightism.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    talking about "left" and "right" is meaningless as we can't even agree about what those words mean, never mind what they represent or what those who label themselves want.

    pick certain policies such as capitalism or communism or privatised education and critisize those.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    There is far less agreement over the term Communism than there is over left and right.
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    Default Re: Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    To be honest -- I have absolutely no idea what you mean by a rightist moral system vesus a leftist moral system.

    I think you need to define some terms before this can be discussed or we will spend most of our time just arguing vocabulary.
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    Default Re: Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    Does not really clear things up. Both left and right are ethical systems as constructed. There is no moral advantage of either system if perfectly executed within their assumed universe. The problem is the universe is not accurately defined and neither system is perfectly executed.
    Last edited by Viking Prince; January 01, 2011 at 12:54 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking Prince View Post
    Does not really clear things up. Both left and right are ethical systems as constructed. There is no moral advantage of either system if perfectly executed within their assumed universe. The problem is the universe is not accurately defined and neither system is perfectly executed.
    I like how both wings think they are superior to the other.

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    Claudius Gothicus's Avatar Petit Burgués
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    Default Re: Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    Of course that you can see yourself as morally superior. But then I could argue that you're trying to apply an objective set of terms into a highly subjective field.

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    Fight!'s Avatar Question Everything.
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    Default Re: Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    Is that really so wrong?
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    Default Re: Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoisbest View Post
    Is that really so wrong?
    Scientifically? Politically? Ethically? or just in common sense language?

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    Default Re: Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    Let's go with all
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoisbest View Post
    Let's go with all
    Ok, this is what comes at the top of my head...

    Scientifically: There's not enough evidence in terms of polls and census that show a leading percentage of rightist conducting a more ''moral'' life than leftist or the other way around, understanding the term moral as that of the ''majority'' or the ''accepted costumes of western culture''. In fact there's not even a consensus within the philosophical and sociological community regarding what's more moral and what's not so scientifically claiming to be more moral than others is simply... empty.

    Politically: Where, right into this field you have quite a ''point'' because politics it's about , about how much of your BS your voters and followers can swallow. But then let's focus on another part of the ''political field'' the body count, historically ''rightwingers'' and ''leftwingers'' have both killed millions(I'm talking about actual policies of extermination like the Holocaust, Political persecution and Gulags) not to mention that making moral choices regarding bodybags is shady to say the least. In short both lefties and righthies have done their fair share of direct harm and naughty things.

    Ethically: Well you have basically, the Humanist Ethos from there on the rest of the modern ethos came, the Liberal one, the Socialist one, the Anarchist one etc. etc. etc. they are all claiming to be the more morally ''stronger'' ever since forever so who can we actually believe? I say that we all should believe in one or none it's a matter of personal opinion. But going around trying to make our ''faith'' stronger than the other guys one seems kinda ''crusader''

    Common sense language: Rightwinger, Leftwingers they smell all different yet they are all the same. Pieces of , we all are pieces of .

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoisbest View Post
    A simple question, really: Why is it you believe leftism/rightism is ethically superior to rightism/leftism?
    Rightism. I consider it more ethical to respect people's right to their own property, rather than forcibly taking it for "the common good". Now, I'm not unreasonable, and I realize that taxes are necessary, since at least at the very minimum the nation's military, police and legal system require public funding, but when taxes are implemented almost solely to get back at the rich, regardless of whether they fill any function, something is clearly wrong.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    To me it's not really about what you want, it's how you get it. I strongly believe in the non-aggression principle. It is morally unacceptable to initiate the use of force against another individual to achieve whatever purpose. I think most people believe in that principle, they simply aren't consistent. Surely most of us would never feel comfortable threatening a friend or even a stranger personally. That all changes when it comes to politics though. The state does the threatening for you. When you imagine how society should look like, first ask yourself if you'd be willing to point a gun at your neighbor to achieve it.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    Left and right are completely subjective and changing terms so it's pointless to argue about it.
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  16. #16
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoisbest View Post
    A simple question, really: Why is it you believe leftism/rightism is ethically superior to rightism/leftism?

    As a leftist, I believe that leftism is ethically superior as it places the needs of the majority above the desires of the minority and rewards hard work as well as success, rather than merely the latter. In a leftist system, poverty is lesser among the lower and middle classes, providing for a life that is at the very least decent. Success in a leftist system isn't at the detriment of others, but rather the benefit, allowing for a symbiotic relationship of workers and state or proletariat and bourgeoisie, depending on the form of leftism.

    On the contrary, rightism is ethically inferior as it places the desires of the minority above the needs of the majority and rewards success far greater than hard work. In a Rightist system, poverty among lower classes can reach abominable heights, and the middle class can shrink to dangerous lows, providing for a system of unbelievable inequality. Success in a rightist system comes at the detriment of others, and businesses are compelled to follow only the bottom line, or fall to other businesses, providing for a parasitic relationship between workers and state or proletariat and bourgeoisie, depending on the form of rightism.
    Running in the wrong direction right off the blocks I'm afraid. The political spectrum is meaningless to someone like me since I agree with virtually no one from either side. I don't agree with violence. If we work from that direction I don't much care where we go so long as we abide by this everything else will follow. I have my inclinations and my bias, but I don't reject any ideas that make a society a better place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Leary View Post
    To me it's not really about what you want, it's how you get it. I strongly believe in the non-aggression principle. It is morally unacceptable to initiate the use of force against another individual to achieve whatever purpose. I think most people believe in that principle, they simply aren't consistent. Surely most of us would never feel comfortable threatening a friend or even a stranger personally. That all changes when it comes to politics though. The state does the threatening for you. When you imagine how society should look like, first ask yourself if you'd be willing to point a gun at your neighbor to achieve it.
    As usual, an excellent post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Croccer View Post
    Left and right are completely subjective and changing terms so it's pointless to argue about it.
    Take a seat Croccer. I agree with you. I hope that wasn't too traumatic.

    Democracies are a great example of this, the typical ideas that exist within them like human rights amongst other things are generally shared amongst the parties, parties are inclined to move to the center ground and a USA right wing has little in common with a UK right wing politician.

    As terms go they seem to be quite flexible and quite broad, particularly between the USA and the EU. I haven't even ventured into modern Russian or Eastern politics. To me left and right wing when looked at on the broader scale seems irrelevant, perhaps country to country. Even if you can define a broad theme it doesn't seem like a soup question, in terms of because the themes are so broad and often so easily discarded, it won't get you anywhere discussing it like this.

  17. #17
    dogukan's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    I don't know aoubt left and right.

    But it is true for egalitarian vs efficieny socities.
    Right wing politics generally try to get through this stuff with religion and family values...
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  18. #18

    Default Re: Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    I think he's talking FOX News vs CNN.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Leftism, Rightism, and Ethics

    True, leftism could be someone else's rightism standing on the other side of the world and vice versa.

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