How does the pope decide where he sends crusades?

[Somerandomdude2]

I assumed he did it to whoever he hated the most, or with a bias towards certain towns...

I know that without my interferance, he pretty reliably (100% so far, for me) sends the first crusade to Jerusalem. Playing as the Turks, I immediately took Constantinople whilst shipping off a diplomat to befriend the pope. Relationship was "Very Good" and his first target was.... Constantinople.

I'm going to slaughter me some crusading armies out of spite and much later on sack Rome for this.


So anyway, what's going on here?
How do I appease the pope? Or do I just have to line his pockets with more gold? Will that even work?

[avion365]

lining his pockets will help but i think that he goes after the Islamic faction that is doing the best, for instance if egypt was doing well he would go to Jerusalem or Antioch( if the turks where goin that way) but if the turks went the other way then it Constantinople, if the moors are doin good then its whatever town that is goo there(i forgot the names)
thats the way i always thought it went

[Shasqua]

I was wondering this, too. In Retrofit and Ultimate Retrofit, the Pope usually targets Cairo. Unless you're poor, weak Lithuania, in which case he goes after you.

[Lord Minotaur]

I was wondering this, too. In Retrofit and Ultimate Retrofit, the Pope usually targets Cairo. Unless you're poor, weak Lithuania, in which case he goes after you.

what is this mod? newer heard of it, i have retrofit but whats ultimate retrofit?

[Leaf-Fan-Forever]

what is this mod? newer heard of it, i have retrofit but whats ultimate retrofit?

I think he means Kingdoms Grand Campaign Mod

[janissary500]

The pope decides crusade locations usually depending on the request of a Catholic or friendly faction. I think that the cities in the Holy Land are pre-loaded and unavoidable; but if he calls a crusade on Cordoba or Constantinople, then it was probably because of a different faction. Check what relationship each Eastern European faction has with the pope and then you'll know.

[Shasqua]

I think he means Kingdoms Grand Campaign Mod

No, I mean the Ultimate Retrofit mod by colesy606. It adds Ireland, Wales, the Teutonic Order, Norway, Novgorod, Jerusalem, Antioch, Lithuania, and moves Russia to Kiev and calls it the Kievan Rus'. The map is far larger but covers the same area. I use 1.5 with a lot of my own changes.

[FootSoldier]

Hmm ... my thoughts on when and where of crusades as an Islamic faction go:

Crusade targets are generally the historical ones:
- Jerusalem
- Constantinople (if Islamic, or excommunicated Catholic)
- Tunis
- Lithuania
- excommunicated factions
- heretical sects (never seen this relevant in game)

(Note: the Pope never sent a crusade against Byzantine Constantinople. The 4th crusade took it against the Pope's express wishes in 1204, and the leaders were excommunicated for this. The final crusade in 1396 was to save it from the Turks.)

If you're playing an Islamic faction it's when you take one of the crusade targets, typically:
- Egypt taking Jerusalem
- Turkey taking Antioch
- Turkey taking Constantinople
- the Moors taking Tunis (or Toledo!)

If you're Islamic the Pope gets particularly upset if you're:
- beating up Catholic armies
- assassinating Catholic priests
- conquering Christian territories (Catholic or Orthodox)

I've wondered about other triggers - I get the impression that other factions request crusades from time to time, but I have only a hunch for evidence.

If you're conquering Catholic territories as an Islamic faction you can rely on a crusade.

Tactics for keeping the Pope on side (i.e. reducing the number of crusades)
- ally with the Pope (then you get the warning scrolls when relations deteriorate)
- give him money and map information etc.
- this won't stop all crusades, but will reduce the number

Tactics for fighting crusades (see screenshot):
- block them in passes, on bridges, on sea crossings etc.
- allow the first crusade army to take the target so the other crusade armies go home

When I last played the Turks there were 3 crusades in 200+ turns:
- when the Turks took Antioch
- when the Turks took Constantinople
- when the Turks had their final showdown with a massive Milan (and were winning)

Things not to do:
- fight the crusade armies one by one
- they retreat, hire a load of mercenaries, and come back. Annoying.
- you can end up with several crusade armies doing this at the same time. More annoying.

Things to do (it's payday!):
- send your diplomats to every crusading faction
- demand 100 florins
- they will ask for ceasefire. Extort from each according to their means.

Game experience(see screenshot):

1st crusade to Antioch
As the Turks were a vassal of the Byzantines they were able to block the crusade armies with a single Turkoman HA on the west crossing of the Bosphorus. He stood there for about 40 turns (and didn't go rebel!) and the Byz didn't mind.

The crusade armies tried to get around Constantinople, but they just don't seem able to manage that.

Ally Hungary blocked the Constantinople crossing several times with their ship, despite having their own crusade army. You can see it on the right in the screenshot. I like to think this was deliberate.

Eventually some went rebel when their generals died, some abandoned the crusade, and the Spanish crusade army stayed the extra 10 turns blocking in their enemy the Portuguese. Amusing.

Turkey took thousands from Milan for a ceasefire, while little Portugal could only afford a few hundred.

2nd crusade to Constantinople
For the second crusade the Turks emptied Constantinople, and allowed the first crusade army to occupy it. (Curiously the crusade army consisted of a single general). Then the Turks took it back next turn, when all the other crusade armies had reverted to normal armies.

It was payday again!

I think the AI Egyptians use this same tactic over Jerusalem, which is why it is often more or less undefended when the crusade army arrives, although they have several stacks nearby.

3rd crusade
Milan was massive, about 42 territories. Huge battles ensued. The Pope called a crusade ... the Turks spied about and waited ... and no one came

My conclusion
So, IMHO, the best thing for an Islamic faction to do is to block the crusades if possible.

If not, simply to let the first crusade army take the target. It is simple to take it back, and the other crusade armies melt away.

Of course, burning the Pope is highly gratifying ...

[Escuratii va bene]

Throws a dart randomly anywhere on his crude medieval map, even if it lands in Europe or in Italy, he takes out the dart and repositions it in the middle east anyway (usually Jerusalem or Antioch)

Occasionally he gets pissed with a european nation and just puns it on them

[Ishan]

On a fresh start crusade targets are arranged in the pope's list according to the regions arranged line wise in the descr_regions.txt file so if in retrofit mod if one doesn't wants CAiro to be as the first target then use the default file for vanilla & delete map.rwm so that the first crusade is always either Antioch or Jerusalem.

In later game pope gives preference acc to to religion type and settlement level.

[eggthief]

The Pope obviously uses a magic eight ball for all his decisions.

[Shasqua]

The Pope obviously uses a magic eight ball for all his decisions.

A wise decision. It is right for such a man to control the godly world.

Thanks, Ishan! Helpful as always!

[Ishan]

The Pope obviously uses a magic eight ball for all his decisions.

True that.

Thanks, Ishan! Helpful as always!

Glad to help bro.

[painter]

We even have supporting evidence.

Do you know, my son, with what little understanding the world is ruled? ~ Pope Julius III