How do you successfully defeat the phalanx as Rome

[Audacia]

Playing as Rome on H/H, my empire has expanded into Greece, and fighting the Macedonians has been a constant struggle. Their pikemen in phalanx formation are virtually unstoppable, no matter what tactics I try and employ in order to outwit the AI. Combined with powerful heavy cavalry, the Macedonians have proved to be a formidable opponent.

In the beginning of the war with Macedon, my legions easily defeated stacks of Levy Pikemen and supporting cast of Generals and Heavy Cav. Although my cavalry took serious casualties against Companion cavalry and the likes, my legionaries were able to out maneuver the rigid phalanx formations and outflank their main battle line.

But as the war progressed, and I captured more Macedonian settlements, spawn armies of elite phalangilites with silver chevrons, experienced Generals with many stars, and a supporting crew of 3-4 Heavy cav per stack, defeating the Macedonians has become very, very difficult.

Even with a healthy legion supported by my own phalangilite mercenaries, I cannot seem to out-maneuver their elite phalanx formations. My legions get caught up in the main battle line, my cavalry cannot defeat their heavy cav at the flanks, and when I DO happen to get behind the phalanx with my triarii or principes, the phalanx STILL seems to fight on. And by the time I do finally route them, the rest of my battle line has been decimated.

So basically, any help on defeating the phalanx, specifically the Macedonian/Greek phalanx, would be greatly appreciated

[Imperator of Rome]

That's odd, in my Rome campaign, the Macedonians started spamming Hypapists and Royal Peltasts. The way I dealt with that was by expanding my first line and used the Triarii to flank them while my Principes engaged them in defense mode. It worked a majority of the time.

[Gromovnik]

Maybe you could put your mercenary pikemen in front of your main line, so that they would attract most of Macedonian troops, and then release your legionary cohorts on them. In other words, break the cohesion of their main battle line.

[Lord Dakier]

Phalanx are like an armored car. Attack from the front is suicide, the back is where the bounty is and the sides are also good. Cavalry from the back will often throw them out of formation so its always good. Attacking from the sides with infantry is good way to tear into them but usually time consuming. You basically want to shock rush them and make them panic. Once one flees the others will eventually follow suite.

Send the cannon fodder in the centre... generally they need a good defense to deal with the punishment. Make your bad mofo loco's attack from the front.

[Imperator of Rome]

True, but Agema will resist and even go as far as attack your cavalry with their swords, as seen here. Typically the AI generally s itself up so I win most of the time.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Cal]

id normaly go for the use of the principes in a holding role up front whilst skirmishers pepepr there lines and the cavalry moves round to the sides and back, like its been said fighting them front on is not an option that can be kept up for long

[CPT Worsham]

I usually beat them by first engaging them with legionaries, and then attacking them from their backside with missile cavalry. They start taking casualties so quickly that it becomes a route in a hurry. The key is that you have to have enough cavalry to beat any cavalry that Macedon may through at your own cavalry. It can be tough to balance the right amount of missile cavalry and legionaries. That is why it is best to use a spy on enemy stacks to see what they are composed of before you attack.

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

Let your main line engage the phalanx and throw your cavalry and range units around the back. Slingers and Archers (with fire ammo, if you want to) in the backs of phalangites = epic morale drop.

A good charge of Campanian cavalry finishes the job, even on H/H

[NerZhulen]

autoresolve the battle

[drecie14]

The phalanx is slow moving
use that to your advantage
put your ranged infantry in front of the battle line
Use your ranged infantry(slingers, javelineers, archers) to inflict casualties
don't let them reach your ranged infantry though...
Halfway through if you are satisfied with the casualties you inflicted, engage them with your melee troops(legionaries)
your legionaries throw the pila at them before charging...additional phalanx casualties...
use half your cavalry for screening too...lure their cavalry away while the remaining cavalry hit the phalanx from behind...

[Raymond Agustin]

Slingers, LOTS AND LOTS of Slingers.

[RenovatioImperii]

Don't count to win over macedon infantry in a clean inf vs inf fight... their hypasist almnost never breaks and are superior to every polybian roman inf unit i think..

My strategy:

Formation:

1) Use a heavy infantry line to face the main enemy army.
Don't count on these men to win over the enemy.. their duty is to hold as long as possible.

2) If you can, try to make the enemy main line break in more parts. AI is pretty stupid, and often will do this by itself. If they are not aligned then their single units flanks are uncovered, and you can use surplus infantry to engage a single enemy unit.

3) Make your main line quite thin but formed by veteran men. More men you could put on flanks (second line) the better is.

Battle:

4) When first lines engaged let run your second line man on the flanks. Start to work hard the enemy flanks.

5) Use powerful cavalry plus a trarii added. Lure the enemy cavalry on your triarii unit (macedon has very strong cav, so enganging it in a pure cav fight is risky) and use the whole cavalry to annhilate heavy cav and enemy general. I make a single cav group of 4-5 units! They must destroy enemy cav and sometimes slingers as soon as possible

6) Meanwhile, if you can, bring some archers / slingers on the back of the enemy and start firing. This is very helpful but it is not essential to have them in your army

7) If you done it well, then your main line is still holding (hopefully). Use then your entire cav force concentrated in a small zone. Then charge the enemy with all of them in the weakest point or where your infantry is soon losing.



With this strategy i can win every battle with at worst 1:3 dead ratio (1:4 , 1:5 is common).
Against gaul or light infantry you can easily reach 1:6, 1:10... (here archers are uber strong)

[PrivateJoh]

Slingers, LOTS AND LOTS of Slingers.

True word. AI won't know how to react to them. You can cut down their ranks without a single casualty.

As some other said, slingers on their back is like a death sentence.

[Megas Ycarus]

Umm... Try send a army made of archers to somewhere deep in Sarmatia, take a Free settlement and recruit 2 or 3 stacks of horse archers, then do hit n' run in the campaign map until there are no problems for your legions.
(lolwut?)

[Everto]

HOW DO YOU DEFEAT A PHALANX?

Answer

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

YOU DON'T

[Megas Ycarus]

Simple, you can't... UNLESS you overwhelm them with the good and ol' horse archers .

[The Doubtful Guest]

Tie them up in the front, (preferably with good ole Roman heavy inf.) then simply hit them with whatever you can in their flanks and rear.

-Cavalry charges
-ranged units
-wheel around any available infantry and throw pila into their exposed backs.

I'm with you though man, Agema + heavy cav. support + the ridiculous terrain in Greece can equal some tricky battles.

Also, remember you're a Roman darnit! Don't let those boy-touching Greek fairies beat you!

[AspisPhalanx90]

Everyones pretty much said it, so ill add a bit more

The phalanx is pretty damn near impossible to beat on their terms. use your infantry to hold up the line, and pepper them with missles. If you dont have superior cavalry then them, its going to be alot harder, as almost every macedonian army ive ever fought had plenty of Hypaspists to guard their flanks. Use the legions. Their moral is very solid, good enough to hold the line, even though casualties will build on your end. from then, use the other reserve maniples and flank them. again, its hard to say, because depending on phalanx composition, terrain, and other factors, different strategies work better.

[Centurion Cato]

I think the thing to remember is that the early Legion itself evolved out of the phalanx, so the tactics you use are a little different from cavalry hammer, infantry anvil. First of all, you just won't have the cavalry to do that with early in the campaign - which is when you're at war with Macedon. D'oh! But, your infantry are much more versatile than the enemy phalangites.

Your main advantage over Macedon is your flexible infantry. 1) They can run and not have to spend ages reforming or lowering pikes, this allows you to run troops around the flanks (but they'll have hypaspists, so watch out). 2) Most of your infantry has javelins.

Try to pin with your Principes and 1/3 of your Triarii. (Keep the rest of the triarii on the flanks for spearing their heavy cavalry). Then flank with some maniples and have them volley their javelins where the phalanx is in most difficulty. Charge, reform, charge. Use your cavalry to keep your flanks clean and hit the enemy in the rear when you can. But don't go near Macedon's heavy horse unless you have triarii at hand. When their horse is dead at the hands of your triarii, send them and what remains of your cavalry to hit the phalanx where it stands weakest.

The key to defeating a phalanx is the same as wining with one: combined arms. If you can do it better than they can, you'll always win. The Romans key strength is the flexibility of the manipular infantry formation in the face of the phalanx's solid, inflexible line. When playing as Macedon, if you've ever tried rotating a phalanx as the enemy is close enough to throw pila and get stuck in with the gladius? You'll take solid losses even if you do get your line back into order and manage to carry the day due to your superior cavalry.

Worse still is when the Romans don't even bother going for the centre, practically ignore the phalanx, and cut your troops on the flanks to ribbons while you try and bring the phalanx to bear!

[Samariten]

Phalanx are the easiest unit to beat in RTW slow moving meat wall that just waiting to be flanked.