Why in the world are the Dwarves going to war with the Elves?

[Agamaran]

I'm a little baffled by this. I've been playing the campaign for Third Age: Total War and received a notice that the Dwarves had declared war on the Silvan Elves. About ten turns later they declared war on the High Elves. Why in the world is this happening? Elves and Dwarves have ever been estranged since the debate over the Nauglamir, but that was the last recorded bit of Elves and Dwarves ever openly fighting one another in violence. By the days of the War of the Ring, both races obviously had more important issues to deal with (i.e. fighting against evil). So why in the world are they attacking each other in TA:TW? It's a real drag.

[Liamar]

Becouse Elves and Dwarves have great hatred, or rather suspiciousness towards each-other.
*reads the post*

Cultural differences probably played important part in this traitorous war-plot.
Dwarven diplomats probably couldn't behave themselfs in Elven court. And meaby they ignored "no walking on grass" sign.
And Elven diplomats probably lost burp/farting contest while doing extraordinarly in drinking contest, leaving every dwarf dead-drunk, incapable of remmembering anything what happened during the fiest. It probably planted another seeds of suspicion due to well known among dwarves, elven tendency towards friendly moustachs and vans filled with candy.

[-FrOzeN-]

^another good explanation^^

There is actually a quite simple answer to that. This is Total War and (obviously enough) a game. It is realistic and according to lore (as far as the developers and modders decide to make it.) until the second you hit "End Turn". Then everything changes, and it is really hard to prevent that due to the A.I of Med II:TW that is programmet to attack its neighbours and such.

There are a few mods made to prevent that, for example the "Good vs Evil" submod (if I remember correctly).

[Agamaran]

By this logic Mordor should be able to ally with Gondor after Sauron had a flood of memories come back from his time to listening to the Ainulindale after listening to the Gondorian version of Kumbaya. If I wanted an "anything goes" Middle-earth experience, I'd play an EA game where Elves sling fireballs. Where is this Good and Evil submod then?

[Incan]

By this logic Mordor should be able to ally with Gondor after Sauron had a flood of memories come back from his time to listening to the Ainulindale after listening to the Gondorian version of Kumbaya. If I wanted an "anything goes" Middle-earth experience, I'd play an EA game where Elves sling fireballs. Where is this Good and Evil submod then?

yes you could ally gondor with mordor... go ahead and try it will prolly cost you all of gondor to get mordor to agree. each game plays a lil differently, sometimes the dwarves become evil and decide to attack everyone, other times not. its part of the game get over it. sometimes the AI is retarded the best way to help this is to ally with the elves and dwarves and prevent them fighting. I am suprised how quickly they waged war on each other though. never had it happen to me that early on, what are your difficulty settings? faction?

[Agamaran]

If you have no respect for the very literature you find enjoyment from, then keep that to yourself. I asked where this lore-friendly submod was--does no one have a link?

[Arágion]

If you have no respect for the very literature you find enjoyment from, then keep that to yourself. I asked where this lore-friendly submod was--does no one have a link?

OR you can change faction standings in text files... as Dwarves and Elves are not so friendly with each other.... well... they relations are bad.... -> total war AI thinks: "hey, it's time for a little war!"

But if you change standins, you have to start a new campaing

[Incan]

If you have no respect for the very literature you find enjoyment from, then keep that to yourself. I asked where this lore-friendly submod was--does no one have a link?

whoa take a chill pill, not everyone experiences it like you do thats why i asked you what were your settings and faction no reason to get testy.

[gaius valerius]

If you have no respect for the very literature you find enjoyment from, then keep that to yourself. I asked where this lore-friendly submod was--does no one have a link?

As far as LORE goes do you know what kind of first rate A-holes the Dwarves can be when it comes to the Elves? I don't need to remind you lorewise which little rats came out of the Ered Luin and KILLED THINGOL YOU *%_°%9009!!! I'll burn your beards !!! (I found this disturbing, I was very pleased when they were hence wiped from the face of the Middle Earth/Beleriand) Pesky little arrogant runts that kill Elves cause - face it - they always were second rate blacksmiths... I just play LOTRO and first thing that happens as an Elf is AGAIN, Dwarves trying to steal Elven relics. Nothing changed since the Silmarils... Really can't trust Dwarves when shiny things are involved .





(Gameplaywise this is TW and there are submods to alleviate the problems inherent to the AI)

[Kolaris8472]

If you have no respect for the very literature you find enjoyment from, then keep that to yourself.

If you have no imagination and can't tolerate anything (even the believable) occurring that wasn't in the literature, then why are you playing this? The canon story has already been done, they even have a few books about it. Things happen a bit differently here.

[Liamar]

If you didn't want an "antyhing goes" Middle-earth, you probably schouldn't be here.
I mean seriously, owning Barad-dur and all of Mordor with Hobbits? You is in wrong story man.

[Liamar]

I found this: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=412514

And on the side note, I don't find enjoyment in literature. I find enjoyment in a masterpiece of free game modding. Game.

[Túrin_Turambar]

I don't find enjoyment in literature...

sincere condolences

[Liamar]

sincere condolences

Not HERE anyways,

[Moonflower]

sincere condolences

agreed.

[jinjo]

i had some events, when mordor attacked harad, so everything happens in middle earth

[Dutch-Balrog]

wow in my campaigns dwarves and elves never go to war against eachother. they always become allies in the 10th to 20th turn

[Sorandir]

Off topic, but I think it's cool that you respect Tolkien's original work so much & want to stay true to that.

On topic, my only explanation can be that naturally, the elves & dwarves DO have a bit of contempt for each other. However, if this is to your disliking, well...custom battles are made just for you my friend. Just make sure you are willing to do a bit of in your head roleplaying.

[Agamaran]

OR you can change faction standings in text files... as Dwarves and Elves are not so friendly with each other.... well... they relations are bad.... -> total war AI thinks: "hey, it's time for a little war!"

But if you change standins, you have to start a new campaing

How would I go about doing this then?

Off topic, but I think it's cool that you respect Tolkien's original work so much & want to stay true to that.

On topic, my only explanation can be that naturally, the elves & dwarves DO have a bit of contempt for each other. However, if this is to your disliking, well...custom battles are made just for you my friend. Just make sure you are willing to do a bit of in your head roleplaying.

The only reason I'm playing this mod is because I'm a huge fan of Tolkien. A friend of mine who plays this mod linked me to the new custom settlement screenshots to discuss their design. A little more investigation on my part and I go on and purchase Medieval II: Total War just to play this mod.

I understand the mechanics of MII:TW prevent this mod from being 100% accurate, but I also understand that more than half of those kinks can be avoided by personal resolve. I have a few design complaints (like the art direction for wargs), but this Dwarves vs. Elves bothers me to no end.

[Arágion]

How would I go about doing this then?.

Go to:

D:\Program Files\Pelit\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\Third_Age\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign (note that my game is NOT in default directory!!)

default would be:

C:\Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\Third_Age\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign

After finding the file (imperial-campaing) open it and scroll down until you see:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
; >>>> start of diplomacy section <<<<

faction_standings england, -1.0 slave
faction_standings england, -0.9 sicily
faction_standings england, -0.7 milan
faction_standings england, -0.5 scotland
faction_standings england, -0.3 mongols
faction_standings england, -0.9 ered
.......... (it continues!)

For examble if I would like to change High elves' and dwarven relationships I would pick up Moors (High Elves) and Scotland (Dwarves), and change the "numbers" (to positive for examble). Btw, Silvan Elves are the Mongols

I hope this helps