Americans of TWC

[MasterAdnin]

I would like to see who agrees with Bush and if you support him in his quest to 'End Terroism'.

What I do not get is, can he not see that terrorism is a belief and a state of mind. You can not abolish terrorism without abolishing ideas and beliefs. He is the president and should recognise this course of action is just leading the US to a time of devestation, isecurity, and istability.

Do you, the Americans of TWC agree with me that Bush is an incompetent leader? I would also like to see the views of others, besides Americans, on this matter.

Peace,
MasterAdnin

P.S.-I would just like to apologise now if this has offended anyone.

[Farnan]

I believe a combination of military/police action and an attempt to discredit the ideas behind terroism is neccessary to combat it.

[danzig]

This is just another rehash of 1001 threads started here. No Bush is not an incompetent leader nor is he a great leader he is an average leader. The debate isnt whether Bush is leading the US down a course of action of insecurity, instability etc the debate should be what alternative do you propose the US should engage in? Ill remind you Islamic terrorism didnt start with the Bush admin, it dates back further then that with the US being a target of it thru out the Clinton administration which I think is clear now failure to take any action at all led to 9/11. People say Bush is making terrorism worse...how exactly do you make something 'worse' then crashing airliners into commerical buildings? Id say the line was draw in the sand by them no? Im tired of people attacking Bush without offering well how do you address terrorism then...its not just going to disppear when Bush is gone from office anymore then it magically appeared when he took office. So if your going to sit here and say you think Bush is incomptent without offering any other ideas or other points then I think you are wasting your time. Ultimately addressing the 'cause' of terrorism isnt going to happen without drastic changes thru out the middle east ironically enough its one of the center arguments of NeoCons belief in Iraq...the IDEA is right on the mark just the implementation of it couldnt be any poorer as you cannot force democracy or change onto people.

[the_mango55]

I think "Incompetent" is the wrong word, I think that he is just a bad leader. And ending terrorism is not possible, as it has happened since forever, but there are ways to counter it. Some of Bush's plans have been good, like more security in airports and an overhaul of the intellegence agencies, while others have been bad, like the Iraq war and the Patriot act. I also don't think he is as dumb as many make him out to be, he did go to yale afterall, and had about the same grades there as Kerry. Plus JFK wasn't the smartest guy either, and he made a pretty good president, at least in the opinion of the public. The only thing that I really dislike about bush haters (especially ones from other countries) are the ones who automatically label the Americans who voted for Bush "Idiots" or consider all of the red states "backward" or "redneck" states.

[Lord Tomyris]

The only thing that I really dislike about bush haters (especially ones from other countries) are the ones who automatically label the Americans who voted for Bush "Idiots" or consider all of the red states "backward" or "redneck" states.

Hmm, and from what I've seen on the web it seems that quite a large sample of people do this. I, however, supported Bush throughout the election campaign!

[Slimshoom]

i dont agree with all that Bush does, and i dont think he's the greatest president, but i do agree with his war on terrorism, and the actions our country has taken to stop it

[Last Roman]

I agree that sometimes action is needed, for example Afghanistan. However I dont like politicians and our security agencies bending the truth or just plain lying to get their way, for example Iraq. But for the most part we need to attack the ideals of the terrorists. There are some terrorists who will not change their ways. I dont see Bin Laden coming out of the mountains any time soon saying "Oh geez, sorry about that." Those need to be dealt with brutally. It is those younger impressionable people in the middle east we need to show that the west isn't out to destroy them.

[Sétanta]

you have to be ruthless when fighting ruthless people

kill them all or they will try and kill you...i mean all of them.

you hit them where it hurts. no matter what that painful spot may be. and you drive them into a corner where you (a big, western, civilized guy who is better trained and has a bigger gun) can annhililiate them.

[Last Roman]

you have to be ruthless when fighting ruthless people

I said that.

kill them all or they will try and kill you...i mean all of them.

you wont have to kill them all if you change their perspective on the west

Well reagan would be better

reagan was a joke and mainstream America is blind to it.

[Sétanta]

I said that.

so did I

you wont have to kill them all if you change their perspective on the west

these people are fanatics. even if you could change them... killing is easier

[GambleFish]

I said that.



you wont have to kill them all if you change their perspective on the west



reagan was a joke and mainstream America is blind to it.

Reagan was not a joke. he was a great leader of this country who pulled us through the intense times of the end of the Cold War safely. He battled Communism and true threats to America (i.e., nuclear holocaust) and saved a country that was already depressed and heading downwards.

I don't see how he was a joke?


For The record I have nothing against communism, just it's applications and I'm a democrat.

The result of the Iraq war can be shown as
a. Saddam is gone! (woot)
b. Iraq has a sketchy, fragile government, causing renewed religious and ethnic tensions. (uh...)
c. Terrorism abounds and the insurgency has no end in sight. (pooh)
d. USA loses several tens of billions of dollars (really really REALLY pooh)
Overall, verdict of success = teh fail.

[Last Roman]

Reagan was not a joke. he was a great leader of this country who pulled us through the intense times of the end of the Cold War safely. He battled Communism and true threats to America (i.e., nuclear holocaust) and saved a country that was already depressed and heading downwards.

I don't see how he was a joke?

see, this is what I mean. Everyone thinks he's a god because he was president when the soviet union started to crumble. It was just coincidence. He didnt prevent a nuclear war. You really think Russia wanted a nuclear war? No. Reagan didnt kill communism. It killed itself. Simple as that. The only thing I'll give to him is he knew what the people wanted to hear, and he gave it to them.

these people are fanatics. even if you could change them... killing is easier

they wont be fanatics if we ween them off the fanatical teet that is Bin Laden. These people are led to believe that America is full of infidels. We can change that by cutting of the head and leading telling these people the truth. And whats easiest isnt always whats right.

[Major.Stupidity]

kill them all or they will try and kill you...i mean all of them

That policy is not only illogical but also irrational. You're going to increase the already high amounts of anti - Americanism which sews the seeds for easily recruitable individuals. And also it illogical on the simple fact on how are you going to possible eliminate all forms of terrorism. And it ignores what the definition of terrorism is. Is terrorism a carjacking, is terrorism a thunderstorm which scares the crap out of you? Or is terrorism when the US drops bombs on villages in Afghanistan and Iraq. Remember it goes both ways, you would be a fool to believe otherwise.

People say Bush is making terrorism worse...how exactly do you make something 'worse' then crashing airliners into commerical buildings?

Hmmm could it be invading a country where there wasn't a hard core terrorist group - like the US has done in Iraq - with Al- Qaeda in Iraq? The theory of democracy promotion has lead to a massive increase in violence in the area with Al-Qaeda launching attacks outside of Iraq now. It also leads to ethnic polarization with the US supporting the Shia's over the Sunnis which has lead the country to the precipice of ethnic civil war.

[MasterCommander]

he does bad thing very bad things only have to wait a couple more years.......

[Sétanta]

liberals could have done better?

haha thats pathetic. bush is the only guy for the war on terrorism (well reagan would be better)
Clinton just ignored it, kerry ignored it and the dems have nobody that could handle terrorism the way bush did

[danzig]

Hmmm could it be invading a country where there wasn't a hard core terrorist group - like the US has done in Iraq - with Al- Qaeda in Iraq? The theory of democracy promotion has lead to a massive increase in violence in the area with Al-Qaeda launching attacks outside of Iraq now. It also leads to ethnic polarization with the US supporting the Shia's over the Sunnis which has lead the country to the precipice of ethnic civil war.

AQ/Muslim extremism has been launching attacks outside the US before Iraq or do you not count events such as the first WTC bombing? And Id say ethnic divisions in Iraq have far more to do with the fact the Sunnis repressed, persecutated and inflicted human rights abuse on the Shias and Kurds while they were in power then anything the US has done. Civil war is probably the outcome in Iraq under any scenario where Sunnis were removed from power regardless of the US invading it. As I said however (which you seem to ignore) the idea of change in the middle east is the key solution (imo) to addressing terrorism however the method (invading Iraq) was simply not the way to go about it.

[Big War Bird]

I love my President more than words can express. I consider him to be the father I never had. I will follow him anywhere.

[invictus]

I do not support Bush in anyway. Not only is he what's the word....stupid, he is also simple minded. I support stopping terrorism on the civilian population, if it is on military targets well, that is different. I wont oppose to that. -Leon

[MasterAdnin]

Bush has made many failures as a leader, one being the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The reason being that he had good intention, but he was unalbe to carry them out and that makes him incompitant. He failed to secure Iraq and Afghanistan in time to try to establish a working government, and at the current situation, he is unable to do much due to the massive amounts of insugents and increasing hostility towards his campaigns. Now he is being seen as not a savior, but ruined things and they are just as bad if not worse than befores.

The reasons I have for that last statement were because of somethings I have realised. Sure Saddam Hussein was a bad leader and a terrible person, he commited genocide on a huge scale and should, in my opinion, be given the death sentence. But before the war in Iraq, there were not constant bombings being made by helicopters and firefights erupting in the middle of the day and in streets.

Saddam Hussein ruled with an iron fist, and should be killed, and kept the people in line, which prevented people from taking such rash actions.

These are my thoughts, I am not supporting Saddam Hussein in any way, nor am I saying that it was a bad idea going into Iraq, my thoughts are the way we conducted this was wrong and needs to be fixed.

Peace out,
MasterAdnin

[Sétanta]

getting the taliban out of Afghanistan was a mistake!!!

Iraq yes...but afghanistan no