A Query

[Shaxx]

I was considering (in-between egg-nog and annoying relatives) a personal modification of S.S. that involves limiting Large and Huge cities (Fortress/Citadels comparatively) to those that were historically so.

I am hesitant however, despite the relative ease of implementing, the effect on balance might be a bit wide spread and hard to determine. Not to mention always getting a few cities wrong, here and there (history is quite large, after all). Compounded by the fact that the last S.S. I played was 5.9 or so, if I remember. Thus my knowledge of the mechanisms and how they may be affected are a bit dated.

So, I am to ask more experienced S.S. users, how much will this effect economy and recruitment (I.E. real recruitment/S.S.6.3)? That is, will there be certain faction and or town-specific units that will not be recruitable due to a lower maximum wall level? Will the AI (not one in particular) crumble economically under it?

I could play-test or scour through the EDB, but who has the time? I have quite a few other 'personal' modifications I aim to implement that will be time consuming themselves. Well all of this some time after New Year's, anyway.

Any advice or warnings would be appreciated.

Merry Christmas.

[Gorrrrrn]

If you restrict huge cities it might not have too much of an adverse impact on AI
restricting large might be a bit harsh.

[Shaxx]

If you restrict huge cities it might not have too much of an adverse impact on AI
restricting large might be a bit harsh.

Restricting large cities/fortresses is more than likely where possible issues would arise, I agree. I would still prefer minor cities being a bit more common place 700 turns in, though.

Another possible wrench in the idea would be despite the lower income from lower tiered cities, there might be a surplus of gold from not having to upgrade said cities... I was looking forward to some economical woes.

[David93]

Restricting large cities/fortresses is more than likely where possible issues would arise, I agree. I would still prefer minor cities being a bit more common place 700 turns in, though.

Another possible wrench in the idea would be despite the lower income from lower tiered cities, there might be a surplus of gold from not having to upgrade said cities... I was looking forward to some economical woes.

It sounds like a nice idea but i dont think it would keep the balance in check very well. just IMO though.

[JorisofHolland]

The AI has money anyway, that's not the problem. You can severly hurt the player's economy (which may be a good thing, actually) but you won't hurt the AI's economy (perhaps when using Carl - Economy for runaways, perhaps, heard good stuff about it). About recruitment: well, I don't really know which units are only available in large cities and up, but I'm pretty sure restricting fortresses will severly harm recruitment capability. But well-balanced, it might actually keep more factions alive for a longer time than usual. Requires some testing, I'm afraid.

[Tears of Destiny]

As a warning, this will work for the most part in early period, but in late period restricting Fortresses will absolutely butcher the military balance and power of almost every nation. Late Period depends on Fortresses.

[JorisofHolland]

Well, it's possible to unlock fortresses after a certain year, right?

[Fred Putz]

I could play-test or scour through the EDB, but who has the time?

Rozanov told me once:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...75#post8247375
With that one You could start a test when You go to work - and You´ll have some results when You come home. Or run it overnight - or both.

Well, it's possible to unlock fortresses after a certain year, right?

Yes You could easily add an event counter to the building like that:

cannon_towers city requires factions { northern_european, middle_eastern, eastern_european, greek, southern_european, } and event_counter gunpowder_discovered 1

[Shaxx]

As a warning, this will work for the most part in early period, but in late period restricting Fortresses will absolutely butcher the military balance and power of almost every nation. Late Period depends on Fortresses.

Will it do so equally across nations or will some be more crippled than others?

Will certain units disappear from the game entirely if their town/castle cannot reach fortress or large/huge city level?

The AI has money anyway, that's not the problem. You can severly hurt the player's economy (which may be a good thing, actually) but you won't hurt the AI's economy (perhaps when using Carl - Economy for runaways, perhaps, heard good stuff about it). About recruitment: well, I don't really know which units are only available in large cities and up, but I'm pretty sure restricting fortresses will severly harm recruitment capability. But well-balanced, it might actually keep more factions alive for a longer time than usual. Requires some testing, I'm afraid.

Right. Money scripts, I forgot about those... I did get a look at Carl though and I think it/he could handle it.

Rozanov told me once:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...75#post8247375
With that one You could start a test when You go to work - and You´ll have some results when You come home. Or run it overnight - or both.

Very useful. I will set this up once I get the chance to do any modding or testing.

Much appreciated.

Yes You could easily add an event counter to the building like that:

cannon_towers city requires factions { northern_european, middle_eastern, eastern_european, greek, southern_european, } and event_counter gunpowder_discovered 1

That would be ideal for fortresses. I was thinking of using the "one settlement type" mod though and just working from there.

Thanks.