American Exceptionalism...

[Copperknickers II]

... why? To what extent is it true that America is exceptional? And is it beneficial or disadvantageous to have such a belief?

I'll quote your own president, Americans:

"I believe in American exceptionalism, just as the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism..."

This article explains why the 80% of you who believe America is 'unparalleled in the world' might want to take a step back and look at your country in perspective. Britain was once, if anything, greater than America, so although there may exist a slight bitterness that we have lost the influence of history's greatest empire, we know that your superiority won't last for ever. The question is, do you?

[Claudius Gothicus]

mmmmmmm it's a really hot topic.

I don't like feeding American nationalism but let's get real. No country in the history of humanity became a superpower at such a fast rate. From being worn out in a bloody civil war to go around parading like an imperialist power in less than 30 years.

Well that's gotta count for something, at least in the geopolitical ''sphere''. On other fields such as the social environment or the culture they are in no way more ''exceptional'' than others.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

I don't like feeding American nationalism but let's get real. No country in the history of humanity became a superpower at such a fast rate.

actually every single superpower did, from ancient Rome to Britain and the USSR.

[Claudius Gothicus]

actually every single superpower did, from ancient Rome to Britain and the USSR.

Britain? It took them hundreds of years.

Rome? Same as Britain only their ''superpower status'' was far more unstable.

USSR? Good point, but then we are talking about the political heir of a country hundreds of years old as the Russian Empire.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

1918, the end of American isolationism, to 1945, victory in WWII is 27 years.

Britain? It took them hundreds of years.

1803, beggining of the Napoleonic wars, to 1815, Britain unnopposed inheritor of the World, is 12 years.

Rome? Same as Britain only their ''superpower status'' was far more unstable.

44 BC, death of Julius Ceasar and end of an self-centered Republic, to 27 BC, formation of the Empire is 17 years

USSR? Good point, but then we are talking about the political heir of a country hundreds of years old as the Russian Empire.

1918, the Russian Revolution, to 1945, victory in WWII, is 27 years, joint third place with USA.

And the USA was also hundreds of years old when in 1918 Woodrow Wilson decided to get involved in World affairs.

America is only 300 years old, pretty meteoric compared to the age of the others you listed.

The USSR started in 1918 and became a superpower in 1945.

[Col. Tartleton]

1918, the end of American isolationism, to 1945, victory in WWII is 27 years.

1803, beggining of the Napoleonic wars, to 1815, Britain unnopposed inheritor of the World, is 12 years.

44 BC, death of Julius Ceasar and end of an self-centered Republic, to 27 BC, formation of the Empire is 17 years

1918, the Russian Revolution, to 1945, victory in WWII, is 27 years, joint third place with USA.

And the USA was also hundreds of years old when in 1918 Woodrow Wilson decided to get involved in World affairs.

The USSR started in 1918 and became a superpower in 1945.

That ought to ruin his day.

America in theory is exceptional. In practice we're the biggest let down in history. We've never taken the ethical stance we ought to and it's been slapping our balls around for a while. In our defense no one else has ever taken a ethical stance before (as a country) and for that we should be grateful looking back historically.

[Jingles]

1918, the Russian Revolution, to 1945, victory in WWII, is 27 years, joint third place with USA.

It was 1917. The Soviets win by a few months

[Doyle141]

Rome? Same as Britain only their ''superpower status'' was far more unstable.

Hardly more unstable, towards the end, but they lasted for over a millenia (and a half if you count the Byzantines), nothing to be tossed aside lightly.

... also American Spanish War shows us how well they could exert influence by the end of the XIX century ...

Hardly, the Spanish were very weak by this point, and had few if any colonies (and therefore raw materials), or much industry.

Off-Topic; I like this, it's rather amusing because it's basically what I think of the US; land-grabbing bastards [no offence americans :/]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Imperial]

Off-Topic; I like this, it's rather amusing because it's basically what I think of the US; land-grabbing bastards [no offence americans :/]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Not really. We're very bad at imperialism. We usually end up giving back the land after we take it over. Mexico, Philippines, etc...

[Razor]

Hardly more unstable, towards the end, but they lasted for over a millenia (and a half if you count the Byzantines), nothing to be tossed aside lightly.



Hardly, the Spanish were very weak by this point, and had few if any colonies (and therefore raw materials), or much industry.

Off-Topic; I like this, it's rather amusing because it's basically what I think of the US; land-grabbing bastards [no offence americans :/]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Really? I'm more inclined to see the US as building an "invisible" empire through business deals and economic interests through the international capitalist world economy, that cannot be seen on the map. With its main goal opening as much markets as possible and securing resources and vilifying regimes that do not comply to US demands crying about democracy and freedom and turning a blind eye to regimes in which the US have an (economic) interest.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Hardly more unstable, towards the end, but they lasted for over a millenia (and a half if you count the Byzantines), nothing to be tossed aside lightly.

Compare the British Empire, then take a look at the Roman one. See how the British one had much more bureaucratic durability than the roman one?

Sidenote: Time goes faster with the advancement of technology and communications. So 1000 years of roman power are in no way comparable to 200 or 300 of British one.

Hardly, the Spanish were very weak by this point, and had few if any colonies (and therefore raw materials), or much industry.

As I said in an earlier post, being a Superpower is not about crushing other superpowers it's about bossing around smaller powers or periferia nations.

[Pickle_mole]

actually every single superpower did, from ancient Rome to Britain and the USSR.

America is only 300 years old, pretty meteoric compared to the age of the others you listed.

[Azog 150]

mmmmmmm it's a really hot topic.

I don't like feeding American nationalism but let's get real. No country in the history of humanity became a superpower at such a fast rate. From being worn out in a bloody civil war to go around parading like an imperialist power in less than 30 years.

Well that's gotta count for something, at least in the geopolitical ''sphere''. On other fields such as the social environment or the culture they are in no way more ''exceptional'' than others.

I think most superpowers came to be dominant at a similar rate.


The Mongols and Alexander forged their empires in a matter of decades.

Britain was thrown into the position of unrivaled superpower by 1815- just a hundred or so years after its formation.

The US, as you say, went from the Civil War in the 1860's to superpower in the 1940's to unrivaled superpower in the 1980's and 1990's.

The USSR became a superpower just 28 years after its formation.





Edit: Sorry, didn't see this had already been answered.

[Armenum]

Well today America is a top global power - there's no arguing about that. But like pretty much all global powers its had its share of mistakes, like the Iraq War or supporting dictators here and there, and the list goes on. It's easy to make America the scapegoat for the world's problems, the wars, killings and so on, but one has to just look at what other global powers have done at their time. British Empire, Spanish Empire, Soviet Union, China, etc. and you will find all have done bad things, all have committed some sort of crime against humanity - the quote that is very fitting here in my opinion is "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"

America is a unique country a country built from scratch by a combination of backgrounds and ideas. A country built by immigrants from all over the world. And today it stands in a very high position in many fields from research to economy, and so forth. So Americans have something to be proud of - but with that pride also comes responsibility - to ensure the country works towards the right direction and makes sensible decision in its actions abroad - which admittedly have not always been so sensible.

[Lord de Lyonesse]

No country in the history of humanity became a superpower at such a fast rate

Germany. 1918 it was ruined, by 1939 they were threatening the world with nazism and war yet again? Yeah sure it never lasted but it was perhaps the biggest turn around I have ever seen in the 'history of 'modern' humanity'.

[Pickle_mole]

And a large factor of it comes from our view of man or at least how it used to be. Unlike the rest of the world where the Government is supreme and rules its subjects we in America are taught that each man can govern himself. This freedom and set of constitutional rights let us progress to the status that we seem to be loosing today as we stray from those early principles. Oh how the desire to take what you havent earned and short memories can ruin nations.

[Pickle_mole]

Well considering all those examples are old nations that either changed govs or got "lucky". the us went from sparsley populated colony to world super power i think is a unique achievement of its own. Now this thread is starting to go off topic.

[Copperknickers II]

Well considering all those examples are old nations that either changed govs or got "lucky". the us went from sparsley populated colony to world super power i think is a unique achievement of its own.

Well, the UK did go from from ordinary run-of-the-mill backwater to greatest nation on earth ever in 300 years. There was nothing remarkable about the UK in the 17th Century, indeed the UK itself only came into existance at the same time as the colonists in America had started becoming organised.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

I don't think this thread was meant as a genuine discussion of exceptionalism.

I think it was a response to huge amount of trolling about the USA that goes on here. There are certain users who never stop posting about how terrible and crap everyone else is.

There is actually one user (Won't mention his name) who, not as a troll, said it was worse for one American to die than 3,000 Americans, and when I got angry him, he pmed me saying some crap about "he just gets so angry about American death".

Not that America isn't a great country, but the pr1cks on this forum need to stfu.

America in theory is exceptional. In practice we're the biggest let down in history. We've never taken the ethical stance we ought to and it's been slapping our balls around for a while. In our defense no one else has ever taken a ethical stance before (as a country) and for that we should be grateful looking back historically.

[manofarms89]

That inscription always gets to me, so ing beautiful.