Why He came.

[basics]

Dear All,

Acts 2: 22 – 24 states,

“ Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did amongst you through Him, as you yourselves know. This man was handed over to you by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge, and you, with the help of wicked men, put Him to death by nailing Him to a cross. But God raised Him from the dead, freeing Him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep hold on Him.”

How often have I said that an account was put to the Old Testament saint’s faith? Here we see how that account is paid. Jesus was accredited to them, to us, Jew and Gentile alike although Peter was talking specifically to Jews here. He was their surety that their accounts would be paid by His blood at the cross just as He is the surety of all them that have been born again since, yes even them still to be born.

Miracles, wonders and signs being sought by Jews were His authority seen in the eyes of Jews yet these things alone never saved any of them unless they were coupled to faith. It was His faith that took Him to the cross and it is His faith that is imparted unto all and upon all them that believe. It is His gift to us that we too can believe and not only believe but that our accounts for that day on the cross were paid in full. That is why He was accredited to us.

So as you indulge yourselves this Christmas holiday think why there is one, even though the time and date may not be correct. Think about that Christ-child who came into this world according to all the prophets, aye, even from God Himself when it was foretold of His coming and for what purpose. It could well be that it was for you that He came. Think about it. As long as you are alive the window of opportunity is still there.

May I wish you all a very enjoyable and peaceful Christmas.

[The Dude]

Must... resist... making joke about the title.

That aside, merry christmas to you too basics.

[Darth_Revan]

Must... resist... making joke about the title.

That aside, merry christmas to you too basics.

lmaooo I was thinking the samething

[basics]

Dear All,

Concerning the birth of Jesus Christ as recorded by Mathew his story begins at Nazareth goes on to Bethlehem and returns to Nazareth. Luke’s story fills in the parts that Mathew never recorded yet as expected the one corroborates the other as well as finishing at Nazareth.

Mathew reminds us of the angelic appearance before the shepherds and them visiting the family in Bethlehem and the telling of these men then telling others of what they experienced. Now this is important, I believe, when it comes to the arrival of the wise men, for how would Herod have known of them?

But before all that, we turn again to Luke who informs us that after eight days Jesus was circumcised and the parents having cleansed themselves according to the Law took the child up to Jerusalem for His consecration to God as the firstborn in that family. What that actually meant was that Mary had to be ritually cleansed after having given birth.

So for them that say James was the firstborn is no more than systematic conjecture to validate Mary’s divinity which of course is not the case. Jesus being the firstborn of that family had to be given to God according to the Law and so it was. Indeed two further witnesses to His position as Messias were seen by the actions of Simeon and Anna the prophetess.

It was Simeon who told Mary that she too would have need of the Saviour indicating quite clearly that she was still a sinner yet to be regenerate. Luke finalises that chapter by saying that the family having completed all required by the Law returned to Nazareth. What he doesn’t mention is the portion played by the wise men.

So going back to Mathew and what happens after the birth we begin at chapter 2 with the advent of the Magi. It is written that the Magi came to Jerusalem. Why Jerusalem? Because Messias was assumed to be of David’s line quite rightly and Jerusalem being the City of David that would be where He would make His appearance.

Making enquiries about Messias and all in and around seeing the star wouldn’t have gone unnoticed at the court of Herod. He gathered all those who had knowledge of such things probably being relieved it was not Jerusalem but Bethlehem that was confirmed as being the place of birth. He enquired secretly of the Magi of the appearance and time of the star whilst working out his response.

When the Magi reached Bethlehem having been sent there by Herod, there is nothing written that says they saw Jesus there. What Scripture does say is that they followed the star to where He actually was but there is every possibility that was at Nazareth, why? Because as Luke puts it, having fulfilled the requirements of the Law they returned to Nazareth, it being their home.

Remember they didn’t have a home in Bethlehem and the census being done as well there was no need for them to stay in Bethlehem any longer just as Mathew and Luke record. Indeed Joseph being a business man, a carpenter and a Jew would not have wanted to tarry there indefinitely when there was work to be done back home. But then that is my assessment having worked for Jewish people and not necessarily Biblical.

Now Scripture does not say the wise men saw Jesus as a baby in Bethlehem but it does say that He was a toddler when they did see Him for that is what the Aramaic/Hebrew means, but there is still no mention of Bethlehem. After they had gone having been warned by God just as Joseph himself was warned by God, they went home by a different route and the family went into Egypt for security.

As we know Herod being convinced that Bethlehem was the problem area ordered that all the male firstborn up to two years of age be killed thus covering for himself any incorrect assessments by his own experts as well as the wise men. But the family were not there nor were they at Nazareth. They didn’t return until Herod was dead yet that return was not to Bethlehem but to their home in Nazareth.

So, once again we must make assessments according to the rules of interpretation, which are flow and context, never relying on what has become tradition to obscure the reality which is clearly written of by a Jew and a Gentile. Is it making assumption fit the Scripture or is it a fair assessment of what Scripture says? Let those that have ears to hear, let them hear.

May I wish everyone a very happy New Year.

[Modestus]

Dear All,

As we know Herod being convinced that Bethlehem was the problem area ordered that all the male firstborn up to two years of age be killed thus covering for himself any incorrect assessments by his own experts as well as the wise men. But the family were not there nor were they at Nazareth. They didn’t return until Herod was dead yet that return was not to Bethlehem but to their home in Nazareth.

I believe only one verse in Matthew mentions this and nothing in the other gospels,Josephus does not mention a massacre.

We know that Bethlehem was a little village so perhaps the numbers where so small that it went unnoticed except by Matthew. Herod did execute three of his own sons so he was quite capable of killing a few children if he felt the need.

The evidence would suggest that a massacre did not happen and Matthew should be called in again to clarify a few matters and possibly charged with wasting police time.

[basics]

" The evidence would suggest that a massacre did not happen and Matthew should be called in again to clarify a few matters and possibly charged with wasting police time. "

Modestus,

The Scriptures do say Bethlehem and surrounding area but then if the numbers killed were not that large does that mean it doesn't constitute a massacre? According to the NIV Herod in his fury ordered all boys, not just the firstborn, up to two years of age in Bethelehem and vicinity to be killed so I guess quite a few families would be involved. But then Jeremiah told of such a thing when he said,

" A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because they are no more."

Claudius Gothicus,

You obviously never read the opening statement because it is written that He came as an accredit to them whose account was made by their righteousness. That is why He came. Yes came to establish their righteousness by faith that was put to their account, an account that must be paid, which He did.

Why it was put to account then was because all the saints made righteous were living before Jesus came to die in their place. The blood shed at the cross paid for these accounts in full. Just so all them that were not around when Jesus was and I talk of them as yet unborn because the same thing works in reverse to the former in that He accredits their accounts until the time of their conversions.

We see the very opposite effect in the rituals of Israel where the Highpriest had to make oblations for the people yet before doing so had to do the same for himself before he could enter the inner sanctuary. For all that the rituals went on and on down through the centuries, none of them doing what Jesus Christ did by one act at the cross. That is not just why He came but why He had to come.

If you really understood these things I don't think the title would seem so silly.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Think about The Invincible Sun, whose birthday it actually is and actually has more effect than basic's invisible friend in the sky by actually making life on Earth function and stuff.

[basics]

" Think about The Invincible Sun, whose birthday it actually is and actually has more effect than basic's invisible friend in the sky by actually making life on Earth function and stuff. "

Ferrets54,

That is maybe how you see things but my invisible Friend brought me my wife and gave me three great kids over and above making so many new friends who opened my eyes to a world, excuse the word, I never imagined nor even knew existed. Your sun may have some importance but to those that see it more than we do here in Scotland it has many disadvantages to their lives, that you would only have to ask them. Having Jesus Christ in your life is no disadvantage to anyone that knows Him regardless of any sun.

[Helm]

The Sun may give us life but not an afterlife unfortunately, it will take Jesus to provide us with one of those, a nice one anyway. The only thing is (most) people tended to believe they were going to get a good afterlife anyway long before Jesus even came along to let us know. They didn't perform elaborate mummification rituals in ancient Egypt for nothing, it was all about preserving the essence of the persons soul. Had no-one ever believe in all this stuff before Jesus suddenly appeared and the one true religion was revealed to humanity direct fro God himself I would happily take the "window of opportunity" but I just don't think it works that way somehow. From what I can tell religious belief appears to occur by itself without any directly obvious divine intervention and religions are subject to cultural values and morals of specific eras of history so there's nothing immutable about them at all. What I don't understand when this is all so very clear to me is why the vast bulk of the worlds population still don't seem to realise all this, it's really absolutely blatantly obviously true.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Jesus doesn't offer us any afterlife. He was a completely typical mystic con artist and I feel truly sorry for anybody wasting their scant life paying any attention to his memory.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

Jesus doesn't offer us any afterlife. He was a completely typical mystic con artist and I feel truly sorry for anybody wasting their scant life paying any attention to his memory.

Ya know, if this is true Jesus was the absolute worst con man in history. It'd be like if I planned the most elaborate ponzi scheme on earth and then willingly died in the most horrible fashion just on the off chance that 2,000 years later people would look back on me as a brilliant economist EVERYONE HAS A PRICE MUAHAHA.



On topic, Christmas is a very challenging time for me, especially this year because I've given myself the challenge of trying to see the good in all people. After all, Jesus apparently thought so, that's why he died for everyone. It's a little difficult to do, especially when you post on the internet a lot. But I do think it's a very beautiful and bittersweet time of the year, it's a time that does have darkness, sadness, loss, bad feelings, and the death of a year, but it also has the light of Christ entering the world, and I hope Jesus will be present in all of your lives, even when no one is giving or getting presents.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Ya know, if this is true Jesus was the absolute worst con man in history.

Very poor yeah but the early Christians were exceptionally good at building on his brand presence.

[Monarchist]

We love you too, Ferrets, and pray incessantly for you. I'm sure even the most wacky Christians on all sides do so (and they probably don't ask God to smite you). He came to Earth as a man in order to unite humanity to divinity. It's quite simple. Thank God for Jesus Christ.

[removeduser_487563287433]

We love you too, Ferrets, and pray incessantly for you. I'm sure even the most wacky Christians on all sides do so (and they probably don't ask God to smite you). He came to Earth as a man in order to unite humanity to divinity. It's quite simple. Thank God for Jesus Christ.

I don't mind you praying for me at all and if its sincere then I appreciate the gesture. But I think it will be as much use to me as if you stuck a pen up your arse.

[Monarchist]

I don't mind you praying for me at all and if its sincere then I appreciate the gesture. But I think it will be as much use to me as if you stuck a pen up your arse.

Oh, no! When I said "we" I was referring to Christians in general. A man who does not pray for his enemies or refuses to make friends with his enemies is not a Christian, however much he calls himself that. The radical joy and sense of God's holy, ever-purifying love is incredibly strong for the virtuous Christian. I can say this not because I exhibit these qualities (indeed, I am very sad that I am not at all virtuous 90% of the time), but because Christ exhibited these.

You might call Him some mystic con-artist, but He was certainly quite the medical doctor and good friend, heh. Really, how many confidence-trickster 'prophets' have survived down through the ages based on the fact that they forbade violent thoughts, and commanded love? The most well-known cons of history in the religious field stole money, murdered, raped, pillaged, and did other things to invalidate their claims to holiness, but Christ did none of these things. If Christ is just a man, it is a singular fact of history that such a mild actor would be remembered by so many. His virtuousness is not invalidated by the fact that His posterity was assured by violent Romans forcing everyone to convert by the sword.

By the way, I've discovered the true meaning of Christmas: to clarify that which we sinners have made foggy. Christ's main mission in coming seems to have been the clarification and fulfillment of the Old Covenant, which had been made muddy by various sects such as the Pharisees. I admit very clearly and somewhat shamefully, now, that I have a deep-seated hatred for Protestants, atheists, Moslems, and agnostics, and a somewhat antagonistic opinion of Orthodox Christians. My legalism for the Catholic Church has led me to be just as unfriendly and uncharitable to them as I would be to a person who had just stabbed my own mother. The more I think, pray, and reason out God's existence and the point of life, the more I see how pharisaical I've been to all men. I've been the Archie Bunker of my life, though Christ told me not to be, down through the ages.

Christ came to call virtue from sinners, not more virtue from the virtuous. If a Protestant shows virtue and integrity of character, I must accept him over a Catholic who is a cad. This is not coming from my heart (for that passion is corrupted by my arrogance), but from the mouth of God. I hope He forgives me with His abundant mercy for having been so horrible. The inhabitant of the manger in that unsanitary cave outside a run-down town 2000 years ago has given me food for thought.

"Thus I give you a new commandment: love one another, as I have loved you" - John 13:34-35.

Even if John's gospel was made up by some heretic years after the original Christian message (I don't believe it was), the above passage echoes the core of the whole expedition. It's about fiery passion for our fellow-creatures, and only for the sake of God.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Oh, no! When I said "we" I was referring to Christians in general. A man who does not pray for his enemies or refuses to make friends with his enemies is not a Christian, however much he calls himself that. The radical joy and sense of God's holy, ever-purifying love is incredibly strong for the virtuous Christian. I can say this not because I exhibit these qualities (indeed, I am very sad that I am not at all virtuous 90% of the time), but because Christ exhibited these.

You might call Him some mystic con-artist, but He was certainly quite the medical doctor and good friend, heh. Really, how many confidence-trickster 'prophets' have survived down through the ages based on the fact that they forbade violent thoughts, and commanded love? The most well-known cons of history in the religious field stole money, murdered, raped, pillaged, and did other things to invalidate their claims to holiness, but Christ did none of these things. If Christ is just a man, it is a singular fact of history that such a mild actor would be remembered by so many. His virtuousness is not invalidated by the fact that His posterity was assured by violent Romans forcing everyone to convert by the sword.

By the way, I've discovered the true meaning of Christmas: to clarify that which we sinners have made foggy. Christ's main mission in coming seems to have been the clarification and fulfillment of the Old Covenant, which had been made muddy by various sects such as the Pharisees. I admit very clearly and somewhat shamefully, now, that I have a deep-seated hatred for Protestants, atheists, Moslems, and agnostics, and a somewhat antagonistic opinion of Orthodox Christians. My legalism for the Catholic Church has led me to be just as unfriendly and uncharitable to them as I would be to a person who had just stabbed my own mother. The more I think, pray, and reason out God's existence and the point of life, the more I see how pharisaical I've been to all men. I've been the Archie Bunker of my life, though Christ told me not to be, down through the ages.

Christ came to call virtue from sinners, not more virtue from the virtuous. If a Protestant shows virtue and integrity of character, I must accept him over a Catholic who is a cad. This is not coming from my heart (for that passion is corrupted by my arrogance), but from the mouth of God. I hope He forgives me with His abundant mercy for having been so horrible. The inhabitant of the manger in that unsanitary cave outside a run-down town 2000 years ago has given me food for thought.

"Thus I give you a new commandment: love one another, as I have loved you" - John 13:34-35.

Even if John's gospel was made up by some heretic years after the original Christian message (I don't believe it was), the above passage echoes the core of the whole expedition. It's about fiery passion for our fellow-creatures, and only for the sake of God.

Christians in general are praying for me? I had a stab me in the face with a plastic fork for musing that a crusifix could conceviably service as a lesbian sex toy but I've yet to have one pray for me.

[Monarchist]

Christians in general are praying for me? I had a stab me in the face with a plastic fork for musing that a crusifix could conceviably service as a lesbian sex toy but I've yet to have one pray for me.

That is unfortunate, but thankfully Christianity is not a "No True Scotsman" morality. You are a Christian if you burn with intense love for other human beings (for the sake of God), pray for them, and do them no harm. You are not a Christian if you lunge at people with forks, be they plastic or steel. One can call another a Christian if he exemplifies Jesus' commands. Christ may have told us that He came with a sword, but He never actually demanded the use of physical swords.

You should have told your "Christian" friend to go read John chapter 18. In it, St. Peter slashes off the ear of a servant of those who had come to arrest Jesus. Christ specifically told Peter to get stuffed, and to put the sword away. Anger and sudden emotional act do us no good, but revealing our whole loving souls to other people (with prudence) do us a lot of good.

[Helm]

The desire of an afterlife and fear of death is so strong I think most people just tend to unconsciously ignore all the details that seem so obvious to me. If the ancient Egyptians were wasting their time embalming their dead and casting spells and elaborate spells over them in their quest for immortality we can be equally wrong in thinking scipture and dogma is the key to immortality. If we're finite in our existence then we're finite, if we're eternal we're eternal but there's nothing we can do about it as the universe will take care of it all naturally by itself without any input from us. It's important to live a decent life but then no promise of paradise or threat of eternal torment should ever be the motivation for this. Believers will argue against this line of reasoning but I can't understand how they're doing it as they're not arguing against an opinion but against what is on the objectively true in regards to our situation here on this planet.

[Monarchist]

Helm, the point isn't "scripture" and "dogma". Christ's central message was very simple and non-doctrinal, as it were (legally-speaking). He simply told us to be on fire with a passionate love for God and for our brothers and sisters, fellow human beings. Even those people we dislike or disagree with should be given our charity and time. This was the point of the coming of God to man, and the uniting of man to God. All other things are really tangential, in the end, if we follow that one philosophy.

[Ozzmosis]

Happy birthday to Mithras and Horus too!