Squalor kills

[Aurimas]

Hi, Im playing with england faction and now Im at 150 turn. Everything is good, but one thing kills me. Its squalor. In every city it is 40-80%, and Im building walls, town halls and, etc... and it reduces only 5-10 %.
So i must make low or medium taxes or cities start rioting. So squalor kills my economy too. Also I have too keep many units in my cities.
Please help me with it.

Thank you for your answers.

[shikaka]

First, try to move your capital, build all building which give public order (militia barracks, temples) and move in a good governor.


If still not enough, the only thing you can do is to empty the city, set taxes to very high, and let it riot. When the city riots, take it back and exterminate it.


What you could have done in the beginning:
- convert religion
- build all public order buildings (temples, militia barracks, etc.)
- use maximum free garrision
- use a good governor (preferably dread based, as chivalry increases pop growth)

and don't build many farm upgrades. My experience is that you can build level 1-2 farms freely, but only build higher in the area where your planned capital is.


Squalor (and public order penalty because of squalor) is caused by big population. A farm improvement is +1% population growth, and a chivalrious general also adds some bonus. Also the city on it's own has a base pop growth. (and some 'health' buildings like the main building and high level temple also contribute to growth)

If I remember correctly, 3000 population causes -1% pop growth because of squalor.
That means if the bonuses add up to 5% (that means that base growth, plus farmlands, governor, etc.) your city will stop growing at 15.000 inhabitants, which is easy to control.

If your pop growth (base, farms, governor, etc.) add up to 14%, your city will only stop growing at 42000 inhabitants, which is hard to control...



So plan farms and health upgrades well ahead, especially in cities far from your capital!


edited with info from Oxira.

[Oxira]

It's in RTW the market increase growth in a city. Unless it's a hidden bonus.

[painter]

What I did was to allow the public order to drop into the red, let the people riot (but not rebel) and they will kill some people. If you are lucky, it will be a few thousand dead. Then bring the public order back up for a turn and then let it drop again. Repeat as necessary.

It is how I got Jerusalem and Cairo to quieten down enough to free my high chivalry generals.

[FootSoldier]

You don't need to be afraid of squalor in M2TW (much), and personally I'd never exterminate all those taxpayers :d All huge cities will reach 80% squalor by the end game. The real issue is how to keep the population growing.

Related question - Does recruitment drain a city's population (as in RTW)?

RTW made me afraid of high squalor, where it always led to rebellion. In M2TW it doesn't, so I got relaxed about high squalor in the end. It's hard to keep the taxes high, but on normal it will be ok. In your capital it won't be a problem, but might add up a bit further away. For catholics, a huge cathedral is the key to long term contentedness. If you keep building, i.e. don't just leave a settlement rotting away for decades, then it really won't be an issue. You want lean armies so you can afford to do this.

I aim for 40,000+ cities, and for those with rich farmland 50,000+ (Venice, Marseilles, Constantinople etc.) I find I can hold these on normal taxes with a couple of units as garrison. Occasional bursts of high taxes if short of cash don't seem to harm general contentedness but do cause population decline.

The big issue is keeping the population growing. Early on, if taxes are too high for too long you'll struggle to get to 40,000. Often this means putting aside the Royal Barracks you really want to build for some churches and a kid's playground.

Here's a couple of gratuitous screenshots illustrating this from a Venice (capital Venice) and a Turkey (capital Iconium) campaign. Taxes are on normal, and garrisons are one or two units.

[painter]

M2TW's recruitment doesn't take and disbanding doesn't give population.

I think you should have made it a goal to complete your campaign objective at your soonest convenience. It adds a permanent glory bonus of 15% to public order. I do not know if you would lose it if you fail to keep to the campaign objectives.

Nice screenshots. Informative.

[FootSoldier]

The glory bonus is permanent? I didn't know that - I thought it was transitory, like the triumph bonus.

In truth, I tend to dawdle in my campaigns, experimenting with this and that. I know I can do the objective in the time on vhd, so it's more interesting to be trying things out. At, say, 45 provinces and holding Jerusalem, or whatever, the fizz seems to go out of the campaign for me. However, I'm going to bear that in mind now ...

Thanks for the info.

[Aurimas]

Hmm, so capital has influence to other cities? I didn't know that :\

[painter]

It has two influences. Public order and corruption. Place your capital on the furthest end of your empire and watch the public order drop up to 80% less and the corruption cost increase (check the Finance window). It is in your best interest to make sure that your capital is in the middle of your empire. Use the corruption cost in the Finance window to determine where is the best spot.

FootSoldier, the glory bonus is permanent.

[FootSoldier]

The location of the capital has an influence. You'll see Distance to Capital as a factor on the negatives for public order. If you're England and have a big empire reaching to Jerusalem you'll probably want to shift the location of the capital to, say, Venice or maybe Thessalonika or so, but will have shifted it before that I'm sure.

A second factor of Distance to Capital is corruption. This increases the further away the capital is.

The town hall series of buildings is best for keeping healthy cities. They maintain order, keep the population growing, and reduce corruption. This series also has some great ancillaries - Architect (who reduces construction costs by 10% and decreases squalor), Treasurer, and others ... I'm not an expert on these :d

Then I'd say the religious buildings were best, because they're effective for growth and happiness all the way up to huge cities. The town guard buildings add order bonuses for the first couple of levels, and then the effect plateaus.

You'll need to spend a bit of time experimenting with adding buildings to the build queue and seeing their effect on growth, order and corruption - also income.

There does seem to be a correct build order too, and adding a building to the queue at one point is great, and at another point has no effect. Also, sometimes if you select the correct building for the city loyalty goes up 5%. If you select the wrong building it goes down 5%, and changing it won't change the loyalty back.

I'm sure there's some guides to healthy cities and the economy on the forum if you look around.