[Discussion]New blood in the CdeC?

[Empress Meg]

We have bandied this about between many arguments and concepts over the past few months but I'd like to revisit this. I do agree to some extent that the CdeC and perhaps it can be suggested any vote is indeed a popularity contest in so much as the well-known name will get the more votes. This is reasonable though I also believe that an open mind and a kind heart will garner more votes in the long run.

Anyhow, I'd like to see the CdeC be more welcoming to the Newly. I do not believe that it is necessary to maintain a 3-month restriction on people being able to apply for the CdeC but I won't try to persaude anyone else to agree to this. The magistrate term limit was changed after all to include this so I suppose that most of the curia thought it was a loophole that needed closing. Besides, I don't believe that letting someone recently raised to the citizen rank into the elections will win anymore votes then if they have held citizen rank for four years.

I do however, feel that in order to groom new CdeC members we should ensure that a percentage of CdeC seats are populated by citizens who have never held office. Limiting CdeC terms for current members is counter productive to the curia. We need those seasoned hands to help steer the ship. But perhaps we should also prevail upon those same veteran councilors to hold themselves to their most important duty, that is the sustainability of the curia itself. So I submit that we do not limit the numbers of terms that any member of the CdeC may sit but rather limit the number of seasoned CdeC'ers. For every two vets elected one Greenhorn is also elected.

There's already a system in place which keeps track of the amount of terms a particular CdeC members has served (CdeC Service Medal and the CdeC monthly reports). Elections can continue as they always have done, save that instead of the top 3 vote winners being elected the top 2 citizens who have already served some time in the CdeC are elected in conjunction with the top vote holder of those citizens who have yet to serve.

Seems a bit extreme perhaps and unfair to those members of the citizen class who have served on the CdeC before but it would always ensure that the CdeC has some new blood in it at all times. If the 4 new/8 vet mix seems too extreme then it would be possible to alternate to every other election, for example: one open vote, one limited vote (one "new" citizen elected, 2 vets elected) one open vote, etc.

Ready to receive your heckles and lampoons and hopefully some ideas to improve this concept.

Devoirs The Empress

[Legio]

A bit restricting imo. We should just have faith in the voting body instead of trying to steer it on a fixed course (vote a "new guy" in).

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

There's already a system in place which keeps track of the amount of terms a particular CdeC members has served (CdeC Service Medal and the CdeC monthly reports).

(CdeC Service Medal

Is this "Mantle" supposed to "shackle" one who "Exists to serve????"

[Nanny de Bodemloze]

Interesting idea...But I think that, outlined as above, it is a bit too drastic (just from my POV) and force-feeds the idea a bit. I think if something like this were to be considered, it would have to be on a much smaller scale. So here goes...

What about just a floater CdeC seat, 1 seat that does have a forced limit (3 months?), and can only be occupied by people who have never been on CdeC before? Kindof a grooming station, but with of course all the responsibilities of your regular CdeC seat? I can't come up with an election system that doesn't get convoluted with vote ranking when a newcomer gets more votes than a veteran. Therefore, I think it could only work as a separate side-election on its own cycle...an election for this single seat, every 3 months (unless there is a resignation), where only newcomers can be a candidate.

If no newcomers are interested come election time, the seat remains vacant for a month, then another election held. This wouldn't preclude a newcomer from running in the normal CdeC elections, but if the election for standard seats and the floater seat were running at the same time, an individual can only run in one. The newcomer incumbent cannot occupy the floater post for more than 3 months (is not allowed to run again).

Just food for thought though...but if I had to pick between putting a limit on the number of veterans in CdeC, and the status quo, I would pick the status quo.

[Legio]

The majority of citizens want the top three guys (meaning the three guys with the most votes) to be in the CdeC. By letting someone else instead, the process ignores the vote of the Curia.

Where's the democracy in that? An election is an election after all. If the Curia wants those 3 people we shouldn't be forcing someone else upon them. It makes no sense to do so.

[M D]

Thing is, the re-election ratio is very high, I like Meg's proposal as it would remove such things in a way

[M D]

Belisarius does not stand for consecutive terms, so as to allow fresh blood in, why not limit CdeC members on having consecutive terms

[Legio]

Belisarius does not stand for consecutive terms, so as to allow fresh blood in, why not limit CdeC members on having consecutive terms

The only reason one would limit power is to combat corruption. None of that applies to the CdeC. Corruption on an internet forum is laughable.

Furthermore, with the transparency bill passed and almost fully implemented, the chance for corruption is almost nil as people will be able to see what each councilor writes and base his or her vote on that.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Belisarius does not stand for consecutive terms, so as to allow fresh blood in, why not limit CdeC members on having consecutive terms

Perhaps "Now" is not the best time to reinvent the wheel. Why not embrace notions closer to home....

[FAILED] [Amendment] CdeC Interns

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=384878
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[Viking Prince]

I do indeed like the idea. Perhaps we should reserve the third slot for any citizen not having served during the prior three (or prehaps six) months. This would still allow for some turnover. A good idea though. I will probably support this in any form that takes shape.

[Saint Nicholas]

How about a trial CdeC seat for every election. Top 4 people voted get in, the lowest vote winner of the 4 gets placed into the trial CdeC seat. Trial seat guarantees 3 months of CdeC exposure and service just like a normal CdeC seat. When it comes to election time again, the same process applies. Veteran CdeC members may choose to not stand for re-election so their seat would be up for grabs by the trial CdeC person and any other Citizen, however they may still choose to serve another term if they wish. The idea works on the premise that Veteran CdeC members will almost always get re-elected, due to services rendered, experience and to a lesser extent; popularity. So having this 4th trial seat will allow a new person in that would otherwise not be when you have 3 Vets standing for re-election.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

I do indeed like the idea. Perhaps we should reserve the third slot for any citizen not having served during the prior three (or prehaps six) months. This would still allow for some turnover. A good idea though. I will probably support this in any form that takes shape.

How about a trial CdeC seat for every election. Top 4 people voted get in, the lowest vote winner of the 4 gets placed into the trial CdeC seat. Trial seat guarantees 3 months of CdeC exposure and service just like a normal CdeC seat. When it comes to election time again, the same process applies. Veteran CdeC members may choose to not stand for re-election so their seat would be up for grabs by the trial CdeC person and any other Citizen, however they may still choose to serve another term if they wish. The idea works on the premise that Veteran CdeC members will almost always get re-elected, due to services rendered, experience and to a lesser extent; popularity. So having this 4th trial seat will allow a new person in that would otherwise not be when you have 3 Vets standing for re-election.

Would not a preferable notion be to increase the experiance pool instead of unceremoniously decreasing it....??..

The tide rolls in and the tide rolls out.....the depth and ferocity of it being determined by the throws and timing of nature. Thus flows the votes and the volition of the Honorable Curia.

Placing further complications upon selection and entrance to the CdeC eludes my mind as being of sound commitment.

The Old Coggers stick around through a combination of cunning, boredom, and the sheer act of sloth because they refuse to leave the Dinnig Hall while the Pastry Cart still retains bouyancy and is in theorehtically reachable sight.

The Curator has an understudy, So....why not allow entrance to pages, so that they may fetch the Cogger's pasteries, and in that act, perhaps gaining a modicum of wisdom and foresight....

[Hesus de bodemloze]

What's next? Switching Hex and moderators every month to get "new blood" in there as well? It's decided by a vote, we have the debate thread where people are able to try and sway other members to vote for them. Even ferrets lost the previous CdeC election and he is seen as a "popular" member.

And when will some one be a Veteran or new blood? Because if you take a look at the list of CdeC members there is like 6 people not having the bronze CdeC medal (i am taking the medal as a reference for the time being), this is half of the elected CdeC being "new blood".

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Anyhow, I'd like to see the CdeC be more welcoming to the Newly

....Enter Ye Olde Coggers....


Jom...............-35 votes cast

Saint Nicholas -23 votes cast

EoL...............-27 votes cast

Lsyi...............-08 votes cast

Major Darling...-26 votes cast

Mega.............-61 votes cast...{...."oh Ive fallen and can't get up. I wish a page would bring me a pastry."}

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Hesus, Squid, Astaroth, Leonidas, Y, & Legio/Niko are all in seclusion {hiding underneath the pastry cart}, aghast with trepidation that
the experience gathers will come and whisk them away to the recycle bin. {Viking Prince, not taking any chances is seen
boarding a flight for parts unknown. No forwarding address & no return receipt requested.}

**Oh btw my calculator blew up when I attempted to add their collective votes cast...**

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+ With this vote there are two empty seats to be filled. Does this not count towards "Newly"?

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perhaps it can be suggested any vote is indeed a popularity contest

CdeC debate thread. (Voting begins December 29.)

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=412361

Perhaps we should bring in genuine inquisitors to torment the applicants for the enlightenment of the curia. I apparently was under the misapprehension that this thread helped to separate the wheat from the chaffe...."My Bad".

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I do however, feel that in order to groom new CdeC members we should ensure that a percentage of CdeC seats are populated by citizens who have never held office.

I concur to an extent....kinda sorta in a way...

[FAILED] [Amendment] CdeC Interns

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=384878

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Seems a bit extreme perhaps and unfair to those members of the citizen class who have served on the CdeC before but it would always ensure that the CdeC has some new blood in it at all times.

The trial by fire purifies the faithful and casts the unclean to purgatory so that they may contemplate their misgivings on the "tree of woe" til the next reign of fire which may cleanse them of their taint.

Translation: Alot of folks put forth extensive efforts in the CdeC application debates for the benefit of the voting citizenry. So is this now an episode in buffoonery and thus merely the dominion of court jesters and Fools?

Iffin' candidates don't flat out throw their all into those debates why should they get my vote? Ain't no body better than anybody else. You don't bust your hump in the debate that to me says you could care less and don't give a hoot.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Against anything that let's the curator "fix" the CdeC to her liking.

[Squid]

Against anything that let's the curator "fix" the CdeC to her liking.

There a wonderful attitude, don't bother commenting on a proposal based on its merits because you dislike who proposed it.

[removeduser_487563287433]

There a wonderful attitude, don't bother commenting on a proposal based on its merits because you dislike who proposed it.

No, it's nothing to do with that, it's all to do with a proposal. This is a proposal that aims to take away the right of people to elect representatives and replace it with a system to appoint people based on whomever an individual finds more appropriate.

That is inherently and obviously wrong, and you are smart enough to ing know it, so don't blow smoke at me.

[Legio]

We should be letting the voters decide CdeC elections as a whole. Not amendments to the Constitution or other manipulations of the voting process. If the Curia votes in someone (anybody, mind you - whether from the despicable old or honorable and downtrodden new) then the Curia should have whoever they voted for. People vote who they vote for for a reason, and unless there is something abysmal with the current CdeC roster then it should not be changed.

[irishron]

I'll oppose. Let the Curia speak for itself.

[Lord Rahl]

Err...isn't the whole point of having an election to be so that the "best" people get voted for the job? Back when I used to be a member of the CdeC, I'm guessing years ago, basically every member was already highly esteemed and a multi-year veteran member so there was really no worrying about having the right people for the job. The current CdeC membership looks top notch, and while I wouldn't really consider most of them to be lol n00bs, most of them joined much later than I, so I would consider them to be a sort of veteran new blood (and if this turns into any sort of vampire discussion I'll KILL you!). Besides, I think the more veteran member the better for the CdeC. Maybe that's just because I'm an old member, though. I remember Fabolous and I had quite a reputation of being harsh critics of potential candidates!

I guess my point is that the best people for the job should be voted for every time. If someone thinks that there is a problem of some sort, like Empress M...err...Jolly Holly says, then that seems to imply that the right people aren't being chosen for the CdeC. Am I correct? I don't know if there is a problem, I hardly pay attention to the CVRIA like I used to, but I guess some believe there is.