What has happened to Libertarianism

[Dr. Oza]

it used to be fiscally conservative and socially liberal, but now you have groups like the tea parties laying claim to libertarianism and with it comes their social conservatism, which is fundamentally opposed to libertarianism as is

people who claim to be libertarians should be in favor of:

pro choice
marijuana legalization
stem cell research
etc...


but many of them are not? why?

Becuase modern american libertarianism has been hijacked. Hijacked by conservatives who have painted a picture of america where the government stays out of things that they want but still regulates prohibition, still regulates abortion laws, still regulates stem cell research, this is not libertanism , this is a totalitarianism for everyone that doesnt agree with you.

and modern conservatism in the united states is thus fundamentally flawed in this sense. People like Thomas Jefferson always favored small government, but they never would be interfered with people's lives

I can tolerate and i can support the days of old, where peopel such as Eisenhower would say: "Government should be conservative when it comes to money but liberal when it comes to people"

Yet now this is what we see:

(Sarah Palin)

“The purpose for the United States is… to glorify God. This nation is a Christian nation.”

God will not be mocked. I don’t care what the ACLU says. God will not be mocked. I don’t care what atheists say. God will not be mocked. I don’t care what’s going on in the nation today with so much horrific rebellion and sin and things that take place. God will not be mocked. Judgment Day is coming. Where do you stand?”



how can groups and people like the tea party or other republicans preach small government but try to instill and force their own morals, their own beliefs and their own prejudices on everyone, how can they utilize government to do so.. how can they support constitutional abortion amendments or ban stem cell research or ban marijuana and drug use ... conservatism has become nothing other than an avenue for select few to force upon everyone what they believe

but when it comes to welfare

HELL NAW!

but when it comes to social security

HELL NAW

but when it comes to medicare

HELL NAW

but when it comes to taxes

HELL NAW

but when it comes to adopting humane foreign policy

HELL NAW

....

but when it comes to spending hundreds of billions on the DEA

HELL YA!

when it comes to banning stem cell research, abortion, etc... HELL YA

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it seems american conservatives have found themselves in a terrible quandary

[Mr. Scott]

Hmmm to me it appeared as though, for the most part, tea party supporters didn't pay much attention to social issues in the US and instead focused on fiscal conservatism. Except for Odonnel it didn't strike me as though social conservatism was even a major aspect of their movement.

I'm a bit sick of the republican party at the moment though. They are hypocritical in that they want fiscal liberty but less social liberty. Its unfortunate, but hopefully the tea party shook the republicans up.

[Thorn777]

I think the tea-party is more about Kenny Rogers lookalike's claiming their "libertarian leaning".

[Denny Crane!]

I'm not really sure how libertarian any party can be embroiled in the current system. I do believe the tea party receives massive funding from big corps and specifically Oil corps. Now I'm not certain that I'm going to start throwing blame at political parties and especially not minority parties. Because there are entrenched political parties in most democracies it is almost impossible for a new political group to have an effect and make breakthroughs. A much bigger problem is funding, even big parties must rely on business funding to succeed so it is inconceivable to me that a minority party could survive without taking donations and relying on business. They are faced with insurmountable challenges anyway so to do it without money would be impossible.

To avoid repetitive arguments about anarchism I'm not even going to touch on it. How do we make the current democratic process more free and fair and free from the influence of money, and the first place to start before anything else is campaign funding. I'm throwing that one out to the floor.

This doesn't just apply to libertarianism. In the UK we have a political party that is, more than ever, ran by Trade Unions as they cannot survive as an entity without that funding. That party is of course Labour, the equivalent (very very loosely) of the democrats in the USA.

[Nanny de Bodemloze]

I've wondered about this issue too, as I'm too many years removed from political science in my university days and haven't kept up on the academics...

I consider myself a traditional libertarian. In the absence of a by-definition 'libertarian' choice in many countries (I'm in Canada, and as for the USA the Tea Party doesn't meet the definition...I don't know about UK), I'd be curious as to what major party a traditional libertarian leans towards. I suppose it may be what the individual considers the lesser of evils...so you go the more social liberal direction and sacrifice your values on fiscal policies, or lean towards conservative fiscal ideals but swallow the conservative social views? I personally tie my horse to the party offering the most liberal social policies as the lesser of evils. But I'm curious how others view this too.

good thread.

[Enemy of the State]

Real libertarianism is still there and bigger than ever thanks to Ron Paul and the Mises institute.

I consider myself a traditional libertarian. In the absence of a by-definition 'libertarian' choice in many countries (I'm in Canada, and as for the USA the Tea Party doesn't meet the definition...I don't know about UK), I'd be curious as to what major party a traditional libertarian leans towards. I suppose it may be what the individual considers the lesser of evils...so you go the more social liberal direction and sacrifice your values on fiscal policies, or lean towards conservative fiscal ideals but swallow the conservative social views? I personally tie my horse to the party offering the most liberal social policies as the lesser of evils. But I'm curious how others view this too.

Write your own name in. Couldn't send a more libertarian message, who better to rule over you than you?

[Panzerbear]

I happen to be registered Libertarian and receive all their correspondence to my email. they are as opposed to republicans and they are opposed to democrats.
they were also very partial to the Tea Party, but in the end it became hijacked by republicans.

given the fact that when you do not vote for one or the other large party, you essentially throw your vote away, so libertarian voters always find themselves in limbo.
needless to say, it actually takes a lot of intelligence and courage to adopt libertarian values. that 90% of Americans do not have...

[Col. Tartleton]

Essentially the Tea Party started off as a mixture of Libertarians and closet racists, the Democratic Leadership being snooty upper class academics called them all racists for opposing Obama, at this point Fox news hijacked them and turned the movement against it's will into a "Nouveau Republican Party" type thing. Then young Republicans ran using the Libertarian platform plus the Republican beliefs ignoring Libertarianism. The rest fudged their way through using the growing fear of communism and poof Republican Majority.

I voted Republican because I don't trust the Democrats to do anything sound not because I support the Republicans who I know will do nothing useful.

Basically I like the idea of Democrats and hate the candidates I'm offered while I dislike the principles of Republicans but I like them more. Seeing as I vote for the person not the party I'm more willing to pick a moderate R than a moderate D based purely off of observed character. I've gone to several Republican events and I've come away feeling like the people would make good choices when things go badly and I've gone to Democratic events and thought "these people are pricks with no respect and a lot of self love." At least the Republicans make me feel good...

I should have voted Libertarian but I didn't know the candidates well enough. To be honest I'm against the Federal Government in general. that noise. Long live the Confederacy!* Long Live the Republic of New Hampshire!

*The first CSA, not the second CSA. Before the Civil War.

[Ahlerich]

long life the proud tribe of the frisians!